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there are plenty of other modules that'll do those things though aren't there... choose the module that's right for you... positivity, y'know...

Hello Jim, Yes this rack is mostly sound sources and sound modifiers...I have been using the Matriarch envelopes to modulate. It also has attenuators and LFO...so what would you recommend for this rack? I was considering the ZADAR.

I'd probably want at least a decent function generator (I like maths - good learning material available - videos and the 'maths illustrated supplement' - good jumping off points) and a quad envelope generator...

zadar is a great envelope generator - extremely powerful, especially with the nin expander... you might also consider the poti expander for batumi...

I'd also strongly consider a matrix mixer to allow you to mix copies of modulation sources to derive more related (and even more complex) modulation sources...

modulation is one of the key advantages of modular over other synthesisers, make good use of it.... another is utilities - there are a wide variety to choose from, they are incredibly useful for expanding patching both control voltage and audio... see my signature for some hints...

I also have been patching all of my synths (Moog Mother 32 (3) and 2 Dfams and Subharmonicon) into a Mackie 16 channel mixer. I can record each synth separately or I can record a live performance. I use a Focusrite 18i20 and an Octopre for interfaces. I put in the 4ms Mixers in the rack for live playing. I guess that would be my "sub mix?"

do you take your Mackie for live performances?

by sub-mixer I really mean downstream of end of channel - combine different sound sources for filtering and processing, combine differently processed parts for further filtering/processing etc etc etc

BTW, I built custom racks for stacking my 5 Moog units before I got into expanding. I did not want to stack the Subharmonicon on the top so I put it in the 104 case. The Moogs sit next to this rack.

then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to either build an extension or a 6 tier rack then to house the semi rack, or to build a 6u rack to extend the case you have to find room for the support modules that imo your modular desperately needs

As far as sequencing, I use the Mother 32's and I also have a Keystep 37. Thank you for your time.
-- Mooger59

those and the bloom should cover everything - but don't the Moog semis use different scaling? ie not 1v/oct - if so I'd consider something that can convert the Moog sequencer output - iirc disting has an algorithm for this...

1. yes good plan - also take a look at the happy needing 3*MIA
2. clouds is good...
3. both stereo mixing and more vcas - grab a veils if you can... also seriously consider a matrix mixer - leverage your modulation into more interesting territories
4. auto-panning (can be done easily with vcas, though), delays - use 2 different mono delays 1 for left 1 for right (the auto pan them with vcas), different reverbs used subtly on each side to give weird spatial presence

The biggest problem I have right now is, I think, lack of mixing or stereo field. I quickly run out of utility trying to mix right and left channels separately.

then address point 3 first

But I'm not sure what problem I'll have next.

that's half the fun discovery of issue and then work out how to solve the issue...

link to rack, cos jpgs are shit

it looks like you could do with improving modulation and utilities - possibly the most interesting modules and in lots of ways much more important than sound sources or effects...

see my signature for a rough guide on how to get the most versatility from your rack for the least cash...

EDITED Jul 28th 2022, 00:01

I'm sure they're crying...

you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, or a module by it's panel - who know's it might be the best sounding formant filter ever... and you rejected it purely on looks... when it comes to music you should rely on your ears, not your eyes...

go on then, mate, you try it...

therefore plenty of modules that have weird layouts, look at the Tokyo tape Music Centre - quite a few of their modules are 14hp or so with a few jacks and knobs at the top ad the rest blank...

I really think the only people who wouldn't buy this module, specifically because of the layout, are those who are so obsessed with functional density that it borders on a form of self-hatred...

do you mean this...

seems really light on modulation and utilities... more envelopes ad routing options desperately needed!

mixing doesn't seem very well thought out - basically vcas and end of chain... no sub-mixing...

racking the Moog is an expensive way to house/power it - put it back in it's case!

how are you sequencing?

EDITED Jul 27th 2022, 05:04

I just asked on their forum! Waiting on a reply.
-- soggybag

I haven’t done any scientific experiments only back of napkin calculations.

I bet if you ask Intellijel they have a number. I’m sure they know the current consumption. Why not add it to this database?
-- soggybag

as modular grid is 100% user sourced info: I bet if YOU asked initellijel they might tell YOU and then YOU could update the entry...

EDITED Jul 26th 2022, 16:47

Yeah the Keith M - but it has ”flat” keys so to speak

looks like there's a $200 little red thing... seems to be the cheapest MPE controller out at the moment (unless it's been discontinued - says out of stock on site)

Yes the Haken takes both Midi and Usb I think.

I’m not shure how the Midi signals from the MK88 will show up to be mapped. The MK88 is on it’s way, I’ll know shortly. The midi settings on it seems very verstile. With one or two foot pedals you would get very many control possibilities. My expectations are high - we’ll se 🤗
-- CAJJO

good luck with that... have fun exploring your new keyboard and the taken module... I look forward to seeing a video posted!!!

sorry, meant MPE...

iirc you should be able to go straight into the Haken module with midi, no??

I was just searching for MPE controllers, wasn't there a tiny one a few years back? single touch controller, not keys... the small Keith McMillan one looks pretty cool for 200 bucks...

Thx Jim ! There is the service manual !

NP - 30 seconds with google!!!

Mmm I’m getting the Midi in expansion for Es9, and it should be able to recieve Midi, send it to the DAW, which can send CV out through ES9 ? But Maybe there’s latency then ?

Still not convinced, you can configure the midi to be midi through though - there's an easy way to find out though - create a post in the Expert Sleepers sub-forum on modwiggler - Os responds pretty quickly!

I'd expect quite a bit of latency if it does work! I think you'd be much better off with the fh-2 as it is designed for what you want it to do!

The Haken Continium is out of my reach, and not really a keyboard.
-- CAJJO

no kidding - eyewateringly expensive... but really cool - my daughter and I played with one a few years ago in a dealer - and then ran away once we saw the price tag!!!

some of the smaller ME keyboards are 'reasonably' priced though...

maybe this: https://picclick.co.uk/Elka-mk-88-Service-Manual-Schematic-Diagrams-schaltplan-schema-144312053111.html

reading the manual for the es9 - I don't think you can use it as a midi to cv module, midi only appears to be used for controlling the internal mixer etc - I think you'd want the fh-2 to do what you want!

@JimHowell1970
I agree the price of the Mantis is a bit special. It's hard to find a case with a competing price and specs. I picked the 7U because the Mantis was out of stock everywhere when I was ordering. For me, even the thought of ever filling a Mantis was a far away dream :-D I looked at DIY back then, but was a bit overwhelmed.

Availability of everything from small manufacturers with global markets is inevitably patchy... patience is a good thing to have (in any niche market!) DIY can be a bit overwhelming, as with any complex endeavour... but it's always good to remember that 99 times out of a hundred, complex is generally just lots of simple bundled up together... and most quoted statistics on the internet are bullshit! hehehe

Glad we're both having fun with our setups.

yeah... it's the only real important thing...

And Lugia is right, your signature (and your ever interesting posts) are a bottomless repository of wisdom.
-- Arrandan

thanks... always appreciated!!!

have you tried timing how long it takes to fail a few times? this should give you a decent idea...

read a lot of newbie posts - there are tons here... it'd probably have been a good idea to have done that before actually buying anything - you will run out of space before you know it with such a small case

I'd look at mixing and modulation, at least as important as anything else you could possibly add - probably an fx aid would work well - has a lot possibilities - if you get the xl version you get cv-able bit crushing on all algorithms

see my signature for hints on how to get the most versatility for the least cash...

@Arrandan

I was just quoting you on the use of "real"...

I see so many people complaining about the price of cases - and then they end up buying ones with 1u rows and often unnecessary built in features - when for the price of a single 4u case they could have almost bought a mantis or for the price of a 7u they could have bought 2 mantises... just so they can get 1u rows, that aren't really anything special... and for the sole purpose of putting utilities in the 1u rows so they can cram more "real" (to borrow your use) modules in the 3u... maybe it's just that I started before intellijel released the 1u row - I think pulp logic had theirs going, or maybe not...

to me there's nothing in 1u compelling enough for me to have one...

if you can find one the intellijel noise tools always seemed one of the better options, though

anyway I'm glad you like your 1u row and find it useful for routing cables

have fun, that's the important thing!

there might be a lot going on on the pcb... so maybe it's a trade-off between depth and width and the developer had a large but shallow case... or maybe they hate shitty ergonomics...

Maths is a great choice... see my comment above, for why...

ADSRs are useful if you are using a keyboard... they are what keyboard synthesisers tend to use... but with modular they are comparatively rare... AD and AR are more commonly used... but there's nothing wrong with ADSR... I'm not sure I'd commit 14hp to one, though... especially as it doesn't have cv addressable stages...

Zadar is really, really useful, but I don't think I'd want it as a 1st envelope generator...

mantis is imo infinitely better than rackbrute... and less ugly, but that's just personal opinion...

mantis is a little bit bigger (20hp/row), has no rack wart, has a super clean power supply (up to video rates - which is low MHz, not just KHz needed for audio), more power on the 12v rail (which is where you need the most)... and because of the size almost always works out cheaper per hp...

nb the 12v power is zoned so you have to pay a bit of attention plugging modules in (each zone is 1A, so no more than 750mA draw plugged in to each zone)

it might be a good idea if you watched your way through at least the first post or so of this thread: https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106396

I personally like tesseract tex-mix... it's expandable and inexpensive... but do your research... some people claim there's a lot of bleed and a high noise floor, nothing I've particularly noticed though...

maths is a fantastic module - but it only really comes into it's own when you dig really deep into it...

bigger rack warts - you have used the tiptop uZeus in your rack - if you are using a RackBrute you should be using the Arturia power supply modules (rack warts - they steal racks space and are ugly) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/arturia-rackbrute-6u-3u-power

as for a case being able to power whatever you put in there - hahahahaha - no.

you need to add up per power supply the draw for each rail from the modules and compare it to what the manufacturer states is the maximum draw for each rail - leave at least 25-30% headroom... if not there's always a chance your power supply either shuts itself off, a module fails to power on or, possibly, the power supply decides to die on you...

I'm having problems posting replies to threads - started last night/early this morning (GMT)...

getting the "reCAPTCHA error: incorrect-captcha-sol. Just try again!" repeatedly

using firefox on macOS bigSur

works fine on safari - but I hate safari!!!

So, I bought the Veils module, along with the A-138D and A-183-3.

good call...

I am holding off on the ADDAC modules (I am considering both) until I can find them at a better price/availability. They were my lowest priority in this build anyway.

where are you looking for addac modules? I think the best way unless you are buying DIY modules, is buying direct from addax themselves - I've never seen that much stock of there's in dealers...

I found a good price on the Doepfer A-111-5 while looking around, so I picked up one of those up for a bit of fun :)

have fun...

Now I need a 9u case... :D
-- cj18

yes and keep the unused cases for when you need them in the future...

With regard to DAWs, it looks like Bitwig might be the best option (that I currently own). Otherwise I might need to buy something like Silent Way for use in VCV. I also have Cherry Audio's Voltage Modular and Softube's Modular - maybe they work? I'd have to take a look.
-- cj18

you don't need silent way for vcv rack - cv is native - just connect to appropriate audio interface...

@Arrandan... when you build your own cases the rails & inserts are about the most expensive thing... cost of 1u rails = cost of 3u rails... extra case materials & power can be close to 0...

as for the quadratt - I'd rather have a happy nerding 3*mia or mutable shades... or even a triplatt!!! anyday... both 6hp... that's 5-6% of the row - quadratt is 28hp... that's 26% of the row... and that's the most compelling 1u module in lots of ways!!!

& utilities are the "real" modules just as much as vcos and lfos and filters!!!!

exactly - I started about 6 years ago with a tiny 6u/72hp case... within about 6 months there was only 12hp left... and wanted a maths - enter the mantis... I now have 8 cases in total... iirc about 1800hp+ of rack space - not all filled!!! but it probably will be eventually... GAS ebbs and flows over time... usually in relation to disposable income!!!

not convinced about 1u though - it saves 3.5" in vertical height, but can only hold at most a 3rd of the functionality and in terms of build cost (most of my cases are DIY) costs the same 3u...

for portability I prefer 6u cases - I reckon I could easily carry 18u/104hp at a time - 1 case in each hand and one on my back... but for diy I prefer 9u... less build time/cost...

"endgame" hahahaha there is no such thing - not only does no plan survive contact with the enemy (in this case yourself) - if/when you get to that state, the solution is another case!!

good luck and have fun!!!

now with link...

you should update to use the even bigger Arturia rack warts... instead of the smaller uZeus rack warts...

is there enough modulation? probably for now, especially if you are leveraging the o&c & pams with the matrix mixer to get more complex modulation... but for the future I'd look at adding at least one more modulation source - my choices would be at least 1 if not more of zadar, batumi, maths... maths in particular if you want to learn more about modular synthesis (as opposed to just connecting modules together - synthesis with modules) - as it has a lot of learning videos & imo even better the 'maths illustrated supplement' - best when thought deeply about - why, what, how - and used as a jumping off point for experimentation instead of just a simple patch reference, though!!!

as for overlap between pams and o&c - not really you need gates and envelopes and lfos - these at least for now cover this reasonably well - & "redundancy" is not a bad thing in modular anyway in lots of cases - modulation and utilities especially!

how are you doing end of chain mixing? externally? otherwise might be an idea to look at this...

utilities - my favourite subject... it's hard to say what you will want or need - I would suggest spending some time looking at all the different types and deeply thinking about them... I usually find logic, sequential switches, sample and hold, atttenuation/attenuversion, offsets, more mixers and more vcas are incredibly useful though...

re effects: I'd look at the fx aid pro instead of the dsp2...

& read through a load of other recent newbie/advice posts - they're pretty much all applicable!!!

to quote @Lugia from another thread!

In fact, some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile, below.

EDITED Jul 23rd 2022, 16:32

what are you using for the clock?
are you talking about t2, or t1 &t3? if t2 it sounds like maybe a dodgy module, if t1 and/or t3, then maybe the gate output setting have been changed - see manual ...

I think you have to refresh something to get the thumbnail/jpg to update...

I've always built my tex-mix modules - very easy builds with only panel furniture and headers to add - all smd pre-soldered...

if when you expand - remember to tell Mangu how many modules you have - he'll send you the right ribbon cable for connecting them at the back!

going forward things to look at (ie to add if it was me) would be something like the happy nerding 3*mia (or tiptop miso or mutable shades) and something like mutable kinks (clones are available I believe) or wmd/ssf toolbox (may be unobtanium - may be replaced by a similar wmd module in the future) and maybe a small lfo, if it'll fit...

have fun!!!

@JimHowell1970 Thank you much! Would the Mixology do the trick on the mixing/panning? I've gotten to use one a while back and liked it quite a bit. seemed very straight forward. And the Black Output instead of the XOH?

do you really need an output module??? what are you intending to use it for?

I think mixology is kind of large for what it does - if it had a headphone out then maybe, but m'eh - do you need cv panning??? it's pretty easy to patch when you do but takes a couple of vca channels...

personally I really like the tesseract tex-mix - it's expandable so you can add 4 mono or 4 stereo channels at a time - has 2 sends (mono) and 2 stereo returns (that can be used as a stereo send/return) and a headphone output... it might have a slightly higher noise floor and a tiny bit of bleed, but to be honest I don't really notice - there might be a bit of bleed on the sends when the channel is muted, but considering the price (really quite inexpensive) I really don't care... vcas on all the mono channels, manual pan on all the channels - main mix and cue mix... also has (iirc pre-fader) direct output expanders available... I go straight from the main modular level outputs into a cheap 10+ year old Yamaha mixer and from there into my main monitors - works great...

4mono channels, 4stereo channels and a master section will take up 34hp - but will probably cost less than 200 of whatever major currency you use - and you can do autopanning if needs be with the vcas and a lfo (or envelope) and inversion and offset and you get a headphone output included

btw - complaints from people about bleed may be because they are used to pristine DAW mixers - idk, but @Lugia and I had a big discussion about this in a previous thread - neither of us could care less about a bit of bleed - most 'classic' albums from the 60s through the 90s and probably into the 2000s have bleed all over them - definitely anywhere there's a microphone used - in some cases the bleed is a feature (planes flying overhead, cars parking outside, dogs barking etc etc) - adds character, if you know what I mean

I don't want to copy the sound. But he is very creative with those modules and it's interesting for me. I prefer a more contribution comment. Thank you anyway.
-- FidlB

to some extent trying to copy someone else's sound can be a valuable part of the learning process... just as playing other people's music can be too!

btw saw your post on modwiggler - no "hate" here... but I do "hate" the hyperbolic use of the word "hate"!!! hehehe

Ok, great! The A-183-3 fits into the space that I have available, which is a good sign. My rack now looks like this:

nb it looks like that works to me but I have no experience of it - 4 * gain from line level should work ok, you might want to do some further research - please report back...

I have to say, it feels a lot better than it did before. I better understand the purpose of each modules in there now.

good that's an important step...

In my searching, I also came across the ADDAC 200PI. How does that compare to the Doepfer A-138D? I am guessing that the 138D is the better option, with the attenuation and amp, versus simply having two loops available.

you also get crossfading with the a-138d
the 200pi will just do a basic modular to instrument (pedal) level and back
so it's a toss-up - crossfading and gain control vs 2 channels and external gain control (if needed) either from pedals or in rack

As for DAWs, I primarily use either Reaper or Studio One, but also have the light versions of Ableton and Bitwig.
-- cj18

ok bitwig handles cv natively I think, not so sure about the others - I know the full on studio version of Ableton does, but is expensive - which is why I got Logic instead (mostly just use it as a tape recorder and mixdown, but also wanted video in DAW for scoring to picture) - otherwise there are plugins - including vcv rack, that will work with the cv outs of your audio interface

It still needs some work on the mixing tbh...

plaits is dual mono (you could use the dtm to mix these before the filter)
wasp is mono
disting ex can be used as a sound source - as either (depending on what you are using it for) mono, dual mono or stereo
the 3 effects you have - beads, fx aid & magneto are all stereo (all can do mono to stereo)
the output is stereo

nb most vcos are mono

so you could do with a panning mixer (vc or not) and a stereo in/stereo out mixer... I know XOH has 2 stereo channels in, but I'm not convinced that's enough - wouldn't be for me

also you probably don't need a buffered mult... mostly needed for copying pitch information - but bloom has 2 outs - and you only have a single vco...

Perhaps a Doepfer A-138s as a stereo input for soft synths? They are a good price at the moment.

no, it's not an amplifier... possibly this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-183-3

EDIT: actually, it appears that I'd need an Expert Sleepers module. Is that correct? I can send cv from my Presonus Q2626, but it seems that I'd need as ES module to receive it?

no you don't need a ES module to receive it... check the voltage range though! you might want to amplify...

which DAW are you using?

Thanks for the info, Jim.

I am going to buy the Doepfer A-138d, but wonder if I should buy the Addac 301B in addition. I get the sense that they will both be useful. Thoughts?

yes the a-138d for effects pedal interface, the addac 301b for expression pedal interface (which will allow you to control the modular with your foot!)

I like the wet/dry dial on the ALM SBG, but the 1/4 jack just speak to me a bit more :)

Aside from that, the Veils module looks like a winner. I have a software version of it somewhere, but the physical one still seems worthwhile. I'd always planned to pick up the set of Mutable modules, when finances permitted.

good luck and hurry up - new ones are getting more and more difficult to find!!!

I should be able to run my soft synths from my AI into the A-138d in my modular setup, shouldn't I? If not, what is the best route, as I have yet to try connecting them.

maybe - but a lot of soft synths really want stereo inputs - depending on your audio interface... spare channels etc etc

veils will amplify up to 4 channels - but then you don't get to use it as a vca - consider a dedicated stereo (or more) audio input or amplifier if you are doing this a lot

I actually have the A-119, so it is good to hear that it is a worthwhile module! I am thinking that the A-119 as my guitar input and the A-138d for my pedals should be compliamentary. And I am going to try out that pedal. For $40 it is worth a shot!

this is what I have (plus a strymon aa.1) and they are definitely complimentary

the pedal @Lugia mentioned is great for plugging into the addac 301b though, as it's an expression pedals - I use old roland/boss ones - as I had them lying around

If/when I get around to putting more I/O modules into my setup (as it grows), I'll remember your advice on having them separate. I was attracted to having them all in one module for space/efficiency, but will now consider just an output.
-- cj18

this kind of also applies to all things in modular - better to have a single module do a single thing as much as possible!!

To quote @JimHowell1970 "Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!! sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

Maybe look at something like Frap Tools 321, SSF Toolbox, CVilization, maybe Ornament & Crime, or DistingEX

-- jb61264

hahaha - or just look at the signature above!!!

all good advice from Nick there

I'd point out that ochd isn't really synchable - which may or may not be an issue for you!

it's ok as a start - but I think you need more modulation sources and utility modules, for balance and variety... see my signature for some hints in that direction!!

re utilities: more mixing - for both modulation and audio + panning for audio would be good (could be handled with more vcas), which you might also find you need... I like matrix mixers for modulation sources - put 4 copies of 4 in and get 4 more related, but different modulation sources out - I'd also consider some basic sub-mixers - possibly something based on the moog cp3 (manhatten analog for example)

I'd consider replacing the Tempi with Pamela's New Workout - better for modulation purposes that tempi.. and smaller learning curve (no pain in the ass button combos) but there is a simple menu structure instead - and it will add some useful things in there - basic logic, pulse width manipulation, different waveforms etc that I'm not sure tempi does

you might also want to look at a simpler filter - they're always handy to have - doepfer make some good inexpensive takes on classic filter topologies - the sem and wasp are particular favourites...

I'd also be tempted to get something like the fx aid pro, or xaoc timisazora instead of the noise engineering effect module - more variety more easily...

6u case is a good starting point - Mantis is a great case!!!

I'd go slowly at first though - get the minimum that you think for a single voice... and don't forget some stackcables...

EDITED Jul 21st 2022, 20:42

The pedal interface won't work very well - as it reduces the volume to instrument level, which is considerably slower than line level... which is what the 804 will pump out... and you'd still need some sort of audio interface to connect to the iPhone (see below)

the other massive advantage with the 804 is that you only need a single dumb cable - which is a 3.5mm trrs (both ends) cable which shouldn't cost that much...

Any usb compliant audio interface will also work, whether in rack or out... although you'll only get stereo recording - and you'd need a usb to lightning converter dongle and the relevant usb cable - I use one of these with my es8, when I can find the dongle!!! the dongle is quite heavy though and it's difficult to get the iPhone to stay still on a tripod!

If you really just want stereo out of modular into an iPhone - I'd think the 804 is the simplest choice - if you want to also be able to use it with a computer, then I'd consider an usb interface with more channels (both in and out) and getting the dongle for the iPhone...

EDITED Jul 21st 2022, 20:26

well that's one of the problems with posting on public forums... you don't get to set preferences for the replies you want, you just get what you're given...

looks like someone on Modwiggler tried to identify the modules better... although it's very difficult with partial and obscured photos..

good netiquette (or whatever it's called these days) suggests not posting the same question on multiple forums, at least until you've exhausted the relevant answers on one...

looks like all of them... hehehehe

copying someone else's modular will not get you where they are - the most important and unique part of the modular is the user...

Beefaco Rampage and Maths share common ancestory... the main advantage of Maths over the Rampage apart from being less cluttered and therefore more ergonomic (which is a very good thing in itself - & don't get me started on the frap tools falistri, for this very reason) though is that there's a lot more documentation available - not only are there a myriad of videos (some of which are very good), but there's also the 'Maths Illustrated Supplement', which has 32 example patches for Maths - great as a basic guide to getting more out of Maths, but even better if you spend the time thinking about the what, why and how of what it's doing and use that as part of building up a modular patching mindset...

As for a mixer... I really like the Tesseract Tex-Mix - it's not perfect, but it's inexpensive and expandable - doesn't have 1/4" outputs (except for the headphone out), but as far as I know very few modular mixers do... if you must have 1/4" outputs, then the befaco output module is decently priced... & if you can wield a soldering iron, both of these are available as DIY kits...

So for the MMG by Make Noise, could it cause this type of issue if you passed an AC signal to the DC input?

-- jb61264

no it's potentially the other way round - using the DC input to add DC to the AC signal...

Great, thanks! I will not bother with the AI for this build, nor worry about adding another VCO. I'll also have a look at some expression pedals.

addac do a dual expression pedal interface...

I do have a couple of 1/4 to 1/8 cables - I use them between my mixer and AI. The thickness of the cables bothers me, as I am more used to thicker cables :D

yes some can be very thin and plasticy - you can get slightly thicker ones too usually a bit more rubbery like standard guitar cables - I prefer these ones

Two quick questions, if you don't mind...

1) when would an AI module be useful?

Input modules - if you are always using inputs and want to free up other amplification channels...

Output modules - if you get digital clipping when using an audio interface and regular attenuators are not doing the trick / if you are going to play live a lot and need balanced outputs / if you need balanced/isolated outputs because there is noise introduced by the mains power

2) can you recommend any interface modules for pedals?

AI Synthesis, Doepfer, addac, alm sbg

Enough force can bend or snap a 3.5mm plug, but 1/4" plugs are far more substantial. And accidents like that DO happen!

especially when the modular lives on the floor - I managed to accidentally kick a stackcable sticking out of a module - bending it into unusability...

FYI, don't go smaller than a Mantis if you've not bought a case yet. I've seen dozens of Rackbrutes, Palettes, et al get jammed out with "sexy" modules, resulting in...well, nothing in quite a few instances because the "utility modules" were totally ignored. The smaller cases (below 2 x 84) are far better suited for what I call "mission specific" builds instead of generalized builds resulting in a full-on modular. Small cases (without some good discipline on the part of the user) also result in potential fails such as teensy controls that have to be adjusted with tweezers because your fingers DO NOT fit. They also tend to be builds in which essential modules get left out; this is particularly awful when someone opts to jump into modular without advice, buys everything, and then wonders why their "modular synthesizer" doesn't work and/or sounds like refried garbage. Basically, it's pretty simple to put together a good basic build just by skimming the forums here, or hanging out on The Site Formerly Known As Gearslutz or The Site Formerly Known As Muff Wiggler and observing the "traffic". But it's EQUALLY easy to spend thousands on a compromised pile of crap, especially when not paying attention to all of that advice.

completely agree with this...

In fact, some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile above.
-- Lugia

I'm going to quote you on that...

I have the same in my Modwiggler signature - and it's inspired at least one other forum member to adopt similar statements in their signature file...

helps to RTFM... which is on the original module and not included on 3rd party panels

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/make-noise-mmg

"The AC coupled Input has an attenuator to adjust signal levels. An un-attenuated DC input is also offered as this was the type of input utilized on the original QMMG. Together these inputs allow for mixing audio signals or combining a control signal with an audio signal to yield asymmetrical behaviors in the circuits that follow."

Which definitively answers the question - yes you can send AC signals through the DC input

Clicking on the link on the product page leads to an error... so module discontinued... good luck finding one!

missing 1/4" outputs is not a big deal - there are plenty of 1/4"->1/8" cables - I generally use these...

as for headphones - only really needed if you intend to use them away from what you regularly plug into - a mixer or an audio interface, as these usually have headphone outputs - alm make a very small headphone module - alm hpo

or get an end of chain mixer with a headphone output included

as for case - buy the mantis, buy as few modules as you think you can... ie a minimum viable synthesizer (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier, a way to play, a way to listen) and a few utilities - a quad cascading vca is a good investment & can be used as a mono output... and get some blind panels (or make them out of cereal boxes) to cover the holes!!! buying a case that you know you will run out of space in is a false economy!!!!

"AC Coupling" often has a filter to remove DC signals...

the Audio Interface module does not replace your computer audio interface(s), it's just a way of amplifying line level to modular level and attenuating modular level to line level - you may or may not need attenuation at all - a lot of audio interfaces and mixers can easily handle modular levels on the way in...

the audio interface wont really help with pedals, either, instrument level is even lower and a different impedance - and you've got the guitar interface already - better to get a veils as it can amplify line level to modular level, especially if you don't need it all the time - as for guitar pedals - get a proper interface for those

I wouldn't worry too much about 1/4"/1/8" there are plenty of cables available that do that... these are mostly what I use for this

as you are a guitarist, I'd also look at some modules to enable you to use your feet to control the modular - expression pedal and foot switch interfaces - addac or doepfer, for instance

I wouldn't suggest another vco - you have 3 already... that's enough for this amount of hp imo... see my signature for some useful advice on how to get the most versatility for the least cash...

EDITED Jul 20th 2022, 13:12