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for the first case - as long as your cables are long enough (and they don't need to be that long) then it'll be fine...

a quad cascading vca - I'd buy a veils if you can - is a great idea!

why do you think you want an audio interface module?

it depends, which module are you thinking of?

@Jim, thanks for the ideas! Lots of points you raised, I'll try to respond to the major ones below:
-- The Jolin LPG bank you mentioned is likely a great fit here.
-- "Mixing really needs to be addressed..." Agreed! Working backwards, ES8+6 give me 10 outs to DAW, I don't see myself needing more than that with this setup. Lots of potential ways to manage the up to 10 voices, let's say main options are 4 mono + 3 stereo pairs, or 6 mono + 2 stereo pairs. I have some spare Doepfer A-138N (4-ch narrow mixer) I could slot in, those can cover some mono needs. I'm inclined to get 1 Intellijel Mixup, which seems like a low $ and HP way to up the mix channel count, and a 2nd Mixup (if needed) could later be added and chained to the first. Also, SoundStage is a new module for me, I need some more soak time to get a sense of how I'll likely use it... I'm inclined to run a LOT of my pitched sources through it and treat it like a stereo sound-field out. Net net, my current sense is another 10-16HP devoted to mixing could really meet the needs for this setup.

quite possibly!

-- you mentioned CV mixing. On that end I've got Sum&Diff, SISM, and Morph4. Do you have a more preferred setup for CV mixing / mangling? I did see your suggestion of a matrix mixer, just wondering if there's anything more / less to your preferred CV mix setup?

good start, but I find matrix mixers to be incredibly useful for cv - take copies of n modulation sources and get n different, but related and more complex ones out - I have 2 in my system that's about 1200hp for audio at the moment - they're of the smaller 10hp variety (& diy) personally if I were going to buy again (add on more likely than upgrade) I'd go for either the doepfer (bigger and better ergonomics) and/or the 4ms vcam (cv controllable) and/or one of the nlc offerings (cluster/clump - again better ergonomics and/or cv control)

-- "low priority modules" and remaining space. As of today, I've got 95%+ of the modules above (most being re-racked from earlier cases into the new case). AND there's some fluidity between this setup and my home setup. My home setup has all its major functional needs covered, and some HP to spare, so if I want to pull a few items out of the travel rig (above) and slot them into the home rig, that works fine. BUT I think where we're netting out is I'll probably need to free up 16-26HP in the rig above for LPG and mixing additions. In my next few sessions with the setup, I'll focus on (top) rows 1-3 to check which of those modules I least need in this setup.

yeah I think that's where I'd be looking too... I'd much rather have fewer sound sources and be able to route them more places and effect them more than be sound source heavy... remember you can mult outputs to different filters/effects and the fx aid has pitch and frequency shifters etc so I'd probably throw one of those in too - probably instead of scales - not sure how much use you'd get especially as you seem to have a 'battleship' sequencer with the vector and expander - with pitch already quantized

-- likely next steps: add Jolin LPGs and a little more mixing capability, and get a bunch more soak time with the setup before other changes (if needed).

sounds like a plan...

have fun!

filters - alm dual dagger - dual filter 6hp
-- JimHowell1970

I assume you mean Shakmat's Dual Dagger ;-) Amazing little module, 4 filters to play with !

-- toodee

yes - got the manufacturer wrong... old(ish) age...

reverb, delay, utilities...

bigger case... mantis is good

I'd completely agree on your priorities...

if you keep the 4ms modules you can always leave them in a drawer for a while see if you miss them or not before selling them! then the question is either: what to take out or get new case... my answer to this has always been new case... which is why I have 8 of them!

thumbnail & rack don't match - but as you say you have elements, I guess the rack is correct?

which 2 4ms modules to get rid of? the ensemble & the sampler?

Hi Nick

wow that's a big case... I think I'd have gone for 2*9u instead of 1 big case... which would have left an extra row for expansion!

mixing really needs to be addressed... especially with so many voices

lpgs - take a look at the jolin labs - 8 in 6hp
filters - alm dual dagger - dual filter 6hp
switches - doepfer a151 - 4 way switch in 4hp

what are the low priority modules? which modules are you still to purchase, if any?

have you tried the harmonic oscillator in stages? might be able to replace the verbos - don't know never tried either...

do you really need the data - could you replace it with the korg - or vcv rack when you need a scope?

I count 37 audio rate outputs in the top 2 rows - some could do with sub-mixers by the look of it - maybe 3 or 4 4hp cp3 style ones...

doesn't seem to be much for cv mixing - obviously I'd want a matrix mixer...

I think we need to see how much space there really is for the mixing solution before working on it...

@Lugia

I bought into the hate for in rack percussion
-- xnax

I absolutely hate the use of the word "hate" in this sort of context, it's far too over the top... excessive hyperbole!!! hehehe

& don't get me started on the use of "gatekeeping" and "rules" (mostly on reddit, tbh) in relation to advice given on here and modwiggler...

brilliant rant though!!! and your percussion rack sounds great...

I agree, but I also think it's good to remind people that the extra 10% is going to cost them an extra 90% - just like it will do with modular in general...

EDITED Jul 15th 2022, 23:02

hehehe I knew you knew!!!

maybe "It's XAOC, kickass chaos" would be even better!

Like "It's Bond, James Bond"...

I can't speak for @Lugia, but we often have similar points of view...

the main reason that it's often better to get a standalone drum machine as opposed to a modular one is expense - drum modules and modular drum kit synths etc and sequencing them is always going to be much more expensive, especially when you take into account case space, than a similarly functional standalone drum machine - most of which include both sequencing and drum kit oriented effects and are reasonably easily and cheaply synced to modular and often have way more channels for different drum sounds

this pretty much equally applies to everything related to percussion - with the exception, perhaps, of using more generic modules to generate drum sounds and either sampling them or recording track at a time in a daw or similar, this to some extent covers both modules such as plaits or peaks and rolling your own sounds from fundamental synthesis modules (vco, noise, vcf, etc etc)

take the quad drum for instance - it costs more than a cheap drum machine to start with, it needs to be put in a case, it needs sequencing, it doesn't have any effects, it needs to be fed into to a mixer and it's only 4 voices...

take say erica or wmd drum modules - you really want a few of them (probably at least 3) which adds up in cost very very quickly - and then you hit the same issues as with the quad drum...

take something like the queen of pentacles or blk_noir - mostly the same issues again - except mixing and effects are on board

the only advantages of modular percussion are convenience, "it's in the rack with everything else" and modulation - but you pay a major premium for that, generally many multiples of that for not necessarily that much gain...

saying that I have an in rack drum synthesizer (FSS Portland, which I DIYed), Peaks (which I often use for kick and snare), plaits (which I sometimes use for hats or other percussion), a general cv, a few lpgs and marbles, erica black sequencer and a zularic repetitor (which I often use for drum sequencing) and a befaco cv thing (again that I built) that I will use for sequencing my external midi drum synths - & I'd like (but not so much I'm running out to buy asap) a blck_noir and a crucible...

that's at least a couple of thousand in modules alone + at least a couple of hundred in case space (most of my 8 cases are DIY & under £1/hp) - when in all reality I could do 90%+ of what I use it for with a pretty basic and inexpensive drum machine... and get 90%+ the same results much quicker

at the end of the day it's your money... do what you want with it... find your workflow and make your peace with your money... no one cares, except you... take or leave advice as you see fit... etc etc etc

@Lugia - it's chaos, not kickass, but they might be that too!

EDITED Jul 14th 2022, 21:24

do you want us to critique it for you?

if so please post a link to the public rack (ie the url) - this helps us, help you - as there are mouse over informatics, click through and roughly 10k modules of which most of us only have experience of a few 10s, maybe a couple of hundred, at best

any worthwhile effects rack is very, very close to a full blown modular synth...

a synth is made up of sound sources, sound modifiers, modulation sources and utility modules

an effects rack is made up of an i/o module of some sort (you sound source), sound modifiers, modulation sources and utility modules

but here's the rub... a powerful technique is audio rate modulation - for this you want a sound source - ie a vco - & the i/o is a utility - so effectively they are identical...

do you have an audio interface with at least 4 outputs? you'll want one of those if you don't have one... why do I need 4 outputs? I hear you say... because you need master outputs to hear the mix and 2 to use as sends to the rack... but I can use headphones to monitor! I hear you say - hmm, no the headphones mirror the master outs (1&2) - so unless you want to be that blind deaf and dumb kid - get at least 4 outputs!

if you want to do things like tempo syncing - you'll either want more outputs than that or a midi interface (& potentially a midi-cv module), personally I use audio as much as possible...

If you don't already have an audio interface, there are a few in eurorack (expert sleepers es8 or 9 and there's a new one on it's way from befaco)

if you already have a suitable audio interface then you'll need to boost the audio levels to modular levels - because modular operates at a much higher level (peak to peak voltage) - so you'll probably need an audio input module - or at least a module that can amplify with a decent amount of gain +20dB is good!

plugging the audio from the modular back directly into your audio interface may or may not clip, depends on the audio interface, or might want balanced inputs - so you might need either attenuators or an output module...

there are some combined i/o modules

so that's your sound source taken care of...

I'll assume you want to process stereo tracks from the DAW...

there are thousands of eurorack effects modules - so it really depends on what sort of processing you want to do - but take note a lot are mono - so that may rule them out, unless you want to buy multiples of the same module, or a LRSMSMLR module (which will take your stereo signal and turn it into Mid and Side channels - these can the be processed by mono effects and then it will recombine them back into a stereo signal) - furthermore a lot of people using DAWs want to get some 'analog goodness' into their workflow... most of these modules are mono!!! most of the 'interesting' stereo effects are digital... but don't let that put you off...

some 'interesting' effects modules that you might want to look at (in no particular order) are arbhar, clouds, beads, mimeophon, morphagene, erbe-verb, bunker archeology, magneto, starlab, rings, doepfer filters, fixed filter banks, dual looping delay, spectral multiband resonator, fsu, plague bearer - it really depends on what you are trying to do - which you didn't specify...

the real advantage of modular effects, is the level of cv modulation that you can achieve, using a combination of lfos, envelope generators, function generators, random sources and chaos... so you'll want a decent selection of those - now I hear you say "but I can twiddle knobs and use my hands" - well yes you can but you only have 2 of those - and you'll almost definitely want more, which is where these modulation sources come in very handy - as they replace your hands!!

and don't forget a vco for audio rate modulation!

now for the really important bit... utilities! mix, merge and mangle your signals - both cv and audio & probably in lots of cases not together - which is why you almost definitely need more of these than you can imagine - vcas (a good start is a good quality quad cascading vca - veils perhaps - grab one whilst you can), mixers (sub mixers, matrix mixers, unity mixers, end of channel mixers), mults, attenuators, attenuverters, switches (both manual and sequential), slews etc etc... in general these expand the capabilities of everything else you have exponentially and are comparatively inexpensive (doepfer and ladik are really good brands for these types of modules)

and you might find that a trigger/gate sequencer and a cv sequencer (possibly with multiple channels) are a good idea...

so when I say get a bigger case and go slowly with the module purchases - so you learn what you actually need - as opposed to just the effects modules you really want - you may have an inkling of why

as for a case - I'd recommend a tiptop mantis as a great starting point - it's the best meeting point of hp/cost/good quality power/manufacturer reputation...

now I hope this hasn't put you off, as modular is fantastic, but I'm just giving you an idea of what you are getting yourself into...

if you look into my signature you will see a formula - it is a rough guide to how to build a versatile modular for the least cash...

now go create a public rack (on here) throw a few modules in and post the url - so that we can critique it...

NB there is nothing unique or particularly rare or cool in modular - there are just modules - the most unique thing is you and how you combine them, patch them and play them!

& here's the link to your public rack version - jpgs are shit for us helping you!!!

are these the 11 most popular modules? i don;t know but it looks like 'synthesis with modules' and not modular synthesis to me

I'd go away and do a lot more research before committing any money to this... it's incredibly unbalanced and makes little sense

what is the purpose of the rack, it seems to be audio processing - but there's no input!

how are you providing pitch for plaits?

some food for thought:

1 take a look at my signature - there's a single line guide (the formula) to building a versatile modular synthesizer for the least amount of cash

2 take a look at this thread from modwiggler - https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43964

then spend some time thinking about what you've learnt from those 2 sources

then try again...

EDITED Jul 11th 2022, 01:43

thanks a lot. this is my first experience with synth in general, i'm bass player, i'm a neewbie.
i bought the crave to start in this world and now, a few weeks later i bought any modules to expand it. meanwhile i studied a little the basis of the synth using voltage modular from cherry audio. for now I'm not interested a rack who play without a keyboard.effect like reverbs, delay, chorus etc, for now, I apply them with the daw.
-- monux

if you're a bassist - you might want to look into an instrument input (possibly with envelope/pitch following and gate extraction), expression pedal interfaces (so you can have some control over the modular with your feet, whilst playing bass) & effect pedal interface...

as for filters & waveshapers, I'd see them not so much as effects, but as a fundamental parts of a modular synthesizer, like vcas, vcos, envelope generators and lfos

although all that might be in the (near) future for you...

here's a link to a slighlty old, but still massively applicable and useful learning resource:
https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43964&sid=d750b0736c2737fee8f5381be539a3a2

have fun!!

EDITED Jul 9th 2022, 20:38

@Lugia the roots were way further back...

Tricky Dicky and Reagan/Thatcher were particular low lights!!!

EDITED Jul 9th 2022, 20:10

I'd agree in the main with @Lugia...

and add only get the isolator if you get clipping without it and can't mitigate that with a pad on whatever you are sending it to... you won't do any damage though - I've used an old yamaha mg10 mixer (cost me £100, years ago) and never needed anything to mitigate clipping...

also I'd consider a tiptop mantis case over the rackbrute - a little bit more expensive, but 40hp bigger, better power supply and most importantly no rack wart!! so more space for modules you actually want!

powered with an improved uZeus-derived P/S with ample amps, and it's so reasonably priced.
-- Lugia

it's uZeus studio bus P/S based - not the crappy flying bus board noise monster!!!

well, most people who comment their public racks are seeking advice - so you got it...

use the advice to help you think about where you are going with this...

we have a lot of experience here...

how are you interfacing with your computer? and/or mixing the semi and the rack?

you definitely don't need so many buffered mults - passives will do

no filter?

no waveshaper?

it's a bit pedestrian...

I'd get a better effects module - which can take more modulation and better ergonomics - fx aid xl or bigger!

standard advice: get a bigger rack you'll need it sooner than you think... tiptop mantis is the best bang for buck (hp/price/manufacturer reputation/good power!)

Hello, everyone,

I would like to start a thread dealing with the 62hp Palette from Intellijel.

It's not a good starter case - best reserved for specific things like sequencing - to compliment a proper case

a much better (and by that I mean infinitely better) starter case is a Tiptop Mantis - it's 104hp with 2 rows which means that you will have space to expand (which you will need) - and it's the best by far case for hp/cost/good power/manufacturer reputation - and it is still very portable (unless you are a small child) - and it relieves you from the burden of 1u modules and the mostly superfluous preinstalled functions

The main module in the system should be Morphagene. All other modules should be based on it.

There are no modules based on the Morphagene - perhaps you mean compliment?

The basic idea for my rack is Morphagene as the first sound source. Tides V2 is the second sound source as an oscillator for atmospheric backings or for modulation. The 4 outputs can be modulated with Ochd via the two VCAs. Beads and FX Aid for the effects section and ears as input for external sound sources. Pamela's NEW Workout for clock and modulation

There is not enough space in a 62hp case for multiple voices and the support modules that are needed to provide the infrastructure that is needed to get them to work... please see my signature for a rough guide on how to get the most versatility from a modular synthesizer for the least cash

Have you got the ears yet? - it's a fantastic module, but it's discontinued (like almost all mutable instruments modules) and potentially difficult to get...

Having found the actual rack (so I could insert the link below) I've inferred that you are a guitar player - me too! I'd want a better input module - if I was starting now I would get a sonicsmith converter ev1 - this has the best pitch follower of any module and adds a vco that follows that pitch...

I'd also want i/o for pedals and some ways of controlling the modular with my feet (whilst playing the guitar) so some combination of foot switches and expression pedals - I'd look at addac for this - they do a great module that comes with a breakout box and some foot switches - you just have to add the expression pedals and you are good to go!!

another issue is that the modules are too cramped - once you have plugged in patch cables - at least some of the modules will have knobs that will not be accessible - eurorack is already very small and ignoring ergonomics can lead to completely unplayable synths - this is at least verging on it... especially aroud the fx aid...

not enough mixers imo!!!

how are you intending to provide pitch information to tides? no midi ->cv module, no sequencer... you could use pams, but it will only be a quantized, looped random signal... also remember that you will need to tune tides to your root note...

also I would strongly suggest doing some more research on modular synthesis - the modulation that you are describing is really just shaping notes from the sound sources - vcas are incredibly useful for other things as well - & for basic modulation - modulation -> attenuator/attenuverter -> modulayion input on module is a good way to go - whilst this is perhaps a little bit out of date, it is still a good learning resource - https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43964

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1947169.jpg

Here's the actual link to the rack - jpgs are useless for people trying to help you!!!

What would your setup look like around Morphagene in the 62 hp range or what would you change?

predominantly the case into a more sensible one, replace ears, add features that are useful for giutarists - replace the 1u modules with 3u so they will fit in the mantis

if you absolutely must have 1u - then I would want the noise tools module - all the rest are m'eh at best (can you tell I think 1u is an absolute waste of space?)

I look forward to interesting answers

-- FWGW

I hope it was interesting!

there's a briefcase type travel case for the mantis available if needed which looks really sturdy... can't remember the manufacturer though

I've taken mine on trains, planes and buses with no problem in just the normal carry case - whilst hauling a large bag as well, though!! but I do understand though, I wouldn't like to drop it too far!

I see Thom Yorke/The Smile tour with a mantis - I wonder what they use... possibly a pelican...

I can't imagine having to put my modular away,,, mind you, it's a bit difficult with 8 cases!

EDITED Jul 6th 2022, 12:31

I really appreciate the replies! I've kinda decided that, probably the smartest (not the cheapest) move in the longer run is to get an Intellijel 7U (104 HP) and get at least 2 quadratts and then some. If anybody is selling theirs and is willing to ship to Finland hit me up :)

I don't have any 1u (I think it's incredibly expensive* for what it is in terms of case cost - & I build most of my cases!) but if I did I'd want the intellijel noise tools module

*adding a 1u row to a case costs the same as a 3u row, can only hold 1/3rd the functionality and only saves 3.5" vertically

I'd buy 2 tiptop mantises over a intellijel 7u anyday!!! cheaper and way more usable hp plus arguably much better power!

Good one on the matrix mixer but the only one I've ever considered was the doepfer one, which is unfortunately huge. I've seen some smaller ones, but they usually lack the possibility for cv control, oh well, maybe one day!
-- sulo

the doepfer is incredibly well sized due to ergonomics - I have 2 smaller ones (pusherman and york modular) and they are too small and cramped

you might want to look out for a used rebel technology mix 04 - they are as far as I know discontinued - only 10hp, cv control over everything, but then you need more modules to control it!

EDITED Jul 6th 2022, 10:04

I'm in the peculiar situation where I travelled a lot in the past, but I'm not anymore because I have a fairly young family. And I feel the disappearing money more in my shame about it than in my wallet. Which is good, because it makes me rethink every purchase 17 times so I don't make impulse purchases. It also gives me time to really get to know the new modules before I add even more.

but the money hasn't disappeared - it's embedded in a synthesizer... ok so some has disappeared, but it's still actually worth some cash if you decided to sell it tomorrow you'd get a decent chhunk of it back and the rest you have enjoyed - can't get money back from the memories of the travel you used to spend the money on!!!

Still, I've arrived at the point where space is becoming an issue. I wanted to start small but thanks to Jim's advice, I got an Intellijel 7U. It was a great idea at the time, so thanks again. And now it's nearly full. I usually take it down when my wife needs to use the studio to work from home. But if I should get a second 7U, I'd very much want to install it permanently somewhere, which means rethinking the room... again!

hahaha...

7u 104hp IS small - I have about 1800hp (not all filled) and sacguy77 has a decent sized rack too

screw them to the wall? put a desk in the living room/attic/cellar for the wife to work at?

Another disadvantage is that the simplest things can become obsessive. Take patch cables. I have several varieties, which is OK. But I start fretting about how this one is way too flexible, and that one isn't flexible enough. These are way too long, but those are much too short to really route them well. The fit in this module isn't great, but the others don't really do it better. It's hell because there's incredible choice about everything. You ever looked at screws for your modules? Agh! Really! Who has this as a hobby anyway!?

-- Arrandan

I have no idea how many patch cables (I lost count at 300) or types of them I have...

screws - just get knurlies, they're great

matrix mixers are good - primarily imo for creating more, complex modulation... take copies of 4 modulation sources and mix them together in varying amounts to produce 4 more different, but related modulation sources... I like the doepfer as it id both inexpensive and ergonomic

also sequential switches (and switches in general) can be really handy - again doepfer is great for this

re pams - not going to recommend it as such - just going to note that any "dictation in how to patch" your modular is you and not any particular module - especially given what Pams can do...

For me the cost financially to buy modules and space required for a studio are really the only negatives.
-- sacguy71

and they're not really negatives as such... you'd only spend the money on something else and fill the space with other crap...

@JimHowell1970

you'll almost definitely need more vcas then... they are one of the most fundamental parts of a synthesizer... they are incredibly useful for modulation as well as audio - and being able to be used individually is very helpful

I planned to get some attenuators yes, and i heard that Veils had amplifiers that actually amplify.
Ok, now what's the difference between unipolar attenuators and vcas (for which ones don't amplify) ? I ask because i'ld prefer add attenuverters if they can act like "bipolar" vcas..

attenuators (unipolar) reduce the amount of the signal that is sent through them - according to a potentiometer (knob or trimmer)

attenuverters (bipolar) reduce the amount of the signal that is sent through them and invert the signal (before 12 o'clock) - according to a potentiometer (knob or trimmer)

vcas - generally behave like unipolar attenuators - some can amplify too - and are voltage controlled and may or may not have knobs to adjust this

bipolar vcas - are similar to unipolar vcas - but can invert the signal sent through them

personally I don't have any bipolar vcas - I have an inverter that I can use (malekko invmix) if I want an inverted vca - they can also be used as ring modulators - but I have a dedicated one of those and one in a disting so no real need...

the other modules are all incredibly useful and fundamental to modular synthesis

doesn't the studiolive have a headphone socket? attenuators are always useful!
there's a great headphone module from alm busy circuits called hpo

Yes it has. But i leave my 32 tracks at home when I travel :)

the a mixer with a headphone amp or an output module with headphones - personally I would go for the alm hpo as it is 2hp...

the outputs from tex-mex are modular level... really your mixer should be fine...

Regarding all the comments, yes it should be fine.

Besides that, for the MI Stages, I wonder if the qienem firmware update allows the module to be used as 6 vcas.

I just had a quick check and you can apparently get it to behave like 3 vcas - but they're not really that great - I would seriously suggest investing in a quad cascading vca - they are an incredibly useful investment

Anyway it is a question that remains to be studied, and even if it means remedying it, perhaps it is desirable to solve my I/O issue at the same time. I understand your first comment better.
-- Lijcke

nb. the tex-mix has both headphone outs and vcas on the mono-channels, BUT it is wise to remember that vcas are useful not only for audio, but also for modulation and it is not uncommon to use multiple vcas on the same signal path - for example both note shaping and volume over time

hope this helps

I have a field kit fx for vcas but since it’s a vca mixer they’re merged on the output.. however I may not realise how much I will miss vcas (what you see on the rack url is what I planned to get but haven’t filled all the space yet).
What is a « quad cascading one » ?

you'll almost definitely need more vcas then... they are one of the most fundamental parts of a synthesizer... they are incredibly useful for modulation as well as audio - and being able to be used individually is very helpful

a quad cascading vca is 4 vcas that can be used as a mixer, but can also be split to use individually or severally - veils is a good example

For trigger, pitch and gate I also have a keystep and an mpc one (as a midi interface with the rest of my studio for sequencing). I intend to be satisfied with it for the moment given the staggering sums involved in the transition to modular.

sounds like a plan

Regarding the connection of my system without attenuation to my studio mixer, my mixer is digital (presonus studiolive), so I avoid clipping at all costs then it leads me to always watch the vu-meter (which is right behind me). And, might be wrong but I think attenuators are kind of a second hand solution for my purpose, especially because the output issue comes from the need of headphones socket.

doesn't the studiolive have a headphone socket? attenuators are always useful!

there's a great headphone module from alm busy circuits called hpo

@Cangore thanks, I already took a look on that module and yes it could finally fix all of my needs. But i still expect to find finer solution. Now, regarding that perfection doesn’t exists and since I don’t own an es-9, an harvest man quad pedal send and a proper solution with input gain +30db, I should consider taking 10hp for that.

the outputs from tex-mex are modular level... really your mixer should be fine...

I have to confess that my case seems too be already too small… 😐
-- Lijcke

unless you build in 30%+ for expansion they always do... hehehe

EDITED Jul 3rd 2022, 13:52

Thank Jim !
I need a solution to :
1. input my studio mixer bus out (to send external synths to my modular).

I didn't see a vca in your rack - I would get a quad cascading one (also doubles as a mixer) that actually amplifies (most vcas do not) - mutable veils has always been my first choice and you may be able to find one new still, otherwise a used one, or an intellijel quad will do...

2. lower the modular output to get into my studio mixer but in fact especially for headphones : stéréo out 1/4 jack (to not need any adaptor) TRS if available and a 'volume' knob.

have you tried just going straight from your eurorack mixer? is there clipping? if so attenuators or an output module will work - it'll probably be fine just going straight into your mixer with the appropriate cables - 1/8"->1/4" - I did this for a long time with a basic 15 year old 10 channel yamaha mixer

3. send/return - send modular signal into a Beebo or an Organelle and returning with eurorack level. The Organelle output level is so low that i think it might be guitar level, perhaps so a 'gain in' knob can be very useful.

AISynthesis make an inexpensive pedal interface and you can get 2 in 4hp, if you need that... they are reasonably simple DIY builds - you'll need appropriate cables though (see above)

Don't know if it helps but here's my rack :
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1962355.jpg

please post an actual link (the url) to your public rack - jpgs are next to useless - and there are almost 10k modules - so the chances that I (or anyone else) looking at your rack ad not knowing at least one module is pretty high...

it really depends on the send/return module - most are intended for guitar effects pedals - which expect guitar volumes - which are much lower than line level...

why do you think you need a line level output? a lot of mixers/audio interfaces can easily handle modular levels - possibly with just a bit of attenuation...

as for line input - all you need is a amplifier - some vcas can do this, veils for example - but most can't

maybe you could post a link to the rack?

the main thing you will learn from this is that 2hp modules (with tall trimmers instead of proper pots) suck in terms of ergonomics - eurorack is small enough already - go for bigger modules - unless they are set and forget or don't need any controls - and don't put them next to each other unless you really hate yourself...

Case: buy a tiptop mantis - it is by far the best combination or size/price/manufacturer reputation/decent power supply

Biggest thing missing from a starter perspective is a way to play melodic content - you don't have a pitch sequencer or midi->cv module - decide which you want to use and how many voices you think you might ultimately want - then get something based up on that - this way you will not have to learn and relearn different modules every time you need to upgrade

iirc the 921B requires a 921A module to work - but I wouldn't buy this I'd buy a doepfer basic vco instead - also an inexpensive brand - but without the bad taste

the endorphin.es running order covers euclidean sequencing so the 2hp euclid is superfluous

I wouldn't recommend buying anything in modular with the intention of replacing it with something better in the future - it's a false economy... as is buying too small a case! (see above)

See my signature for a rough guide on how to build a versatile modular synthesizer for the least outlay

there's no rough guide here - other than the collective wisdom of the forum members - there are in other places (modwiggler 1u & 3u subforum stickies for example) - great for general principles

read as many other newbie threads as you can before spending money - probably a couple of dozen will be a good start...

I'd say the same as @farkas and probably wouldn't do it with modular... I'd just "scribble" all over it with modular though!

I will buy Them assembled and want 1 mono and 1 stereo so that means i need 2 douts?

-- Broken-Form

yes 1 for the mono (with enough space for another mono channels) and 1 for the stereo

@Broken-Form - if you want the douts - you want one for each 4 x stereo channels and 1 for every 4 x mono channels module

and remember there are 2 versions:

3hp Douts - 8 3.5mm outputs
original Douts - 8 3.5mm outs and 6 1/4" outs - can also be used for 6 way format conversion

EDITED Jun 30th 2022, 18:25

it looked nicely build.

that it looks nicely built (unless you are using a magnifying glass) is not a great indicator of well built!

Tho' a few people on some modular communities has the same results with theirs.

yes I know - however, I don't necessarily take a lot of notice - what someone hears as noisy - almost all analog is noisy compared to the mixer in a DAW!! - or 'unacceptable bleed - see above responses from both me and @Lugia - again compared to bleed on a DAW mixer (non-existant) is user perceived at best

Very often, the "hiss" comes from the source, at my place bc I often use saturation or overdriven signals, that is where I use enveloped VCA just before the mixer's inputs, when needed, to get rid of the noise, when the muxer is quiet, that is a cool technique to get a clean-yet-overdriven signal. A bit off topic, sorry..
-- -ADR-

as I said my gain staging may be different than yours... have you tried using the built in vcas?

I don't know... I built mine (smd pre-soldered), but I'm sure Mangu's soldering is at least as good as mine, if you bought 'factory built'...

maybe my gain staging is better... maybe my hearing is worse (I'm 52, so possible)... maybe I don't run the output at a very high volume...

as I've said I only really notice bleed on the send/return - if channel send is up ad then I mute the channel - I can still hear the channel in the send - but this is to be expected when send is pre-mute!

Not a perfect module for me. With CV inputs on top, cables are on the screen and the knobs below.
I prefer buying a second FX AID XL.
-- Jihel

you could always turn it upside down....

I had the TEX MIX and the master section, it's a nice little slution, but TM is a very bleedy and noisy module.
-- -ADR-

mine isn't either...

60-hertz hum on his records.
-- Lugia

also known as "warmth"... hehehe

hahaha I use an old notebook!!

@Jim with the ST Mix, Doepfer VC Mix, the Matrix mixer and the Planar that should be enough 🤣
-- finnglink

probably... only you'll be able to tell!

And it's not like consoles are always going to work perfectly anyway. Back in the early 1990s and before, channel leakage is something that you had to watch out for, and it wasn't "NO leakage" back then, but "manageable leakage". I recall reviewing a Studiomaster Diamond 163 back in 1997 that had some very obvious leakage on high-level signals, and that was the sole flaw...otherwise, it was a killer little live desk.
-- Lugia

and even when recording bands in high end studios - there was always leakage on the microphones...
it's not the end of the world - & that's just what's supposed to be on the tape - there are many famous songs where there's an aeroplane flying over or a car driving by... big deal...

the only thing about the tex mix is that i heard there is some bleed through with the mutes

-- Broken-Form

there's a bit but as you can use the vcas on the mono channels it only really affects the stereo channels - & at least for me it's only really present on the returns - so you could just turn the sends down before muting...

I've got a tex-mix & really like it - inexpensive, DIY able (panel furniture & headers only) and very good for the price - and the douts are a great idea - saves stackcables for other things!

to bad it dont have direct outs,so you can multi track record into DAW(like on the D.O.MIXX)
-- Broken-Form

stackcables?

personally I'd go for 2 smaller mono mixers - more versatile for cv - & cram a matrix mixer in too

@JimHowell1970

You're right, kinda. I had a Befaco STMix in there, but I removed that, because there is nothing stereo in there. The Planar 2 also functions as a very hands on 4-channel mixer, so looking at the sound sources that should be enough (for me at least).

mixing is not just for audio!!!! get some dc coupled mixing in there for modulation!!!

The midixo is just a dummy, that'll be a 2HP DIYed panel with a TRS jack, as a breakout-module for the Spring Reverb Tank.
-- finnglink

makes a bit more sense...

there doesn't appear to be enough mixing to me - I'd want more than the matrix mixer (good call btw) and a single doepfer quad vca...

what's the midixo connected to? I don't either an expert sleepers midi capable module or any other midi module in the rack? seems superfluous to me!