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well more rack wart than underpowered I guess - the uZeus - it takes up rack space... & it's not a great power supply, can be noisy and is tbh a bit underpowered... but sufficient for the rack you have pictured...

I think mixers are incredibly useful - especially matrix mixers - for creating interesting modulation...

I don't think you really benefit from a clock divider that much in this rack - not a lot to trigger & marbles can do clock division...

possibly don't need the output module - I'd get attenuators instead... unless you need the headphone output - and then I'd get the ALM hpo as it's only 2hp - odd hp modules are a pita

sequential switches are useful

as I said above expression pedal and to some extent on/off pedal interfaces are really useful - especially if you are going to play guitar or bass into your modular

with similar modules, yes, but not this one - it's a single channel midi->cv module

sound like you want something along the lines of the hex inverter mutant brain or befaco midi thing...

EDITED Mar 28th 2022, 19:02

ok I took a look:

underpowered rack wart... by the time you've sorted a case and rails and the power supply and the boost psu, you might as well have bought a mantis - better power, no rack wart and bigger...

I don't see the need for both pachinko and hermod - in this size case...

I'd throw out the ears and the 2hp loop - the loop because morphagene will do this and the ears because - at the moment for guitar/bass interface I would go for the sonicsmith ev1 - it's got the best pitch follower, and gas other features that are useful

as you're a guitar/bass player, with pedals, then I'd also get at least one pedal interface module (will make life easier) - whilst some pedals will work fine at modular levels - moogerfoogers for example, most won't and need attenuation on the way out and then boosting on the way back in - I'd also want at least one expression pedal interface - so that you can control the modular with your feet whilst playing the guitar - it really helps

I'd also want more utilities - think plumbing - for both audio and cv!

EDITED Mar 28th 2022, 15:14

interesting - not too many people have video modular... which I think is a shame as I love it... mines all combined with my audio - cos I use so many of the utilities and waveshapers for both...

but here's the link to my instagram https://www.instagram.com/jimhowell1970/

looks like a decent start to me...

connect mac - do you really need midi or would you be better with native cv? which DAW are you using? which audio interface? for midi either the mutant brain or befaco midi thing look good to me - for cv - expert sleepers es9 may be the best option - or possibly the bored brain optx (depending on if your audio interface is dc-coupled or has adat i/o)

correct level for audio interface - do you need this? doesn't the Apollo x4 have a pad? if it doesn't or the pad is not enough - then you should be able to reduce the volume using the veils... and go straight from that... if you'd rather use a separate module try passive attenuators 1st (if you decide you still want a dedicated output module, then your clouds will thank you!!) use 1/4"->1/8" cables and not adapters...

headphone output - alm hpo?

Maths - ok it's a great module - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through that a few times- it's a great starting point - try to think about why and what it's doing - not just blindly patching... why do you think you need an adsr? if you do feel you need one then maybe the doepfer vcadsr

I'd not worry too much about an 'audio interface module' - they aren't necessarily needed

first: try the individual modules

if you get clipping (unwanted/unintended distortion) then try second: if your audio interface or mixer has a pad function try this - otherwise try passive attenuators or vcas (you hopefully already have these, but if not attenuators are inexpensive)

if you are still getting clipping then try third: output modules - the bad news is not all are the same - if you've got to this point and your audio interface or mixer is expecting balanced signals - then look towards either ladik or happy nerding as they have some relatively inexpensive dual ones - you might want to look at the brand nw2s - they have some audio interfaces (including balanced ones) with a lot of i/o - other than that I don't think there's a whole lot of options - if it's not expecting balanced signals - then I would try to determine the source of the noise - it could be ground loops - there's a lot been written on that - in which case I believe it would be really useful to look at upgrading your audio interface/mixer to balanced i/o

make noise appear to have just shipped some optomix...

is this recasing them in a 120hp 12u case??? seems like a waste of money if it is...

if you already have the moog semis I would keep them in their cases and spend the money on a smaller case and some other brands modules to extend their functionality

but it is your money to do what you like with...

EDITED Mar 24th 2022, 05:34

potentially yes - there is a chance that the switch could be slightly slower than the sample and hold - in all likelihood it will be the other way round though - the answer is to experiment

if you find that you do have this issue then a trigger delay is the answer - either a dedicated one like the doepfer a-162 or in a more general module that can provide this functionality - you can create one in stages, for example

@nickgreenberg yeah one of the modes of the t side is basically grids - deliberately set up to do kick(t1) , snare (t3) and hats (t2) - I usually send t2 to branches (self patched) to do skip/open/closed

EDITED Mar 21st 2022, 00:03

I use a combination of the zularic repetitor and marbles (which is basically a mini-grids+++) for this

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1871528.jpg

9U

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1871559.jpg

12U

-- jdesole

please post links not jpgs

The idea behind this rack is to be able to create ambient soundscapes, structured songs, and to have enough voices to have multiple tracks within a patch.

trying to do too much in too small a space - very synthesis with modules, as opposed to modular synthesis

Harmonaig gives musical sequencing to any of the 6 voices (C&P, Troika, and Plaits) that I would have. Pressure points allow me to melodically sequence as well as have touch control.

iirc:
harmonaig is not a sequencer, it's a quantizer - you need to feed it sequences to get it to work
pressure points needs brains to get it to actually sequence - and probably some sort of clock module

Crater is a kick drum that sounds sick and I wanted a kick drum module.

but what about a snare and hats???

Scion takes biometric feedback from organic matter and converts it to CV. F***ing awesome.

yeah - nice to have somewhere down the road, maybe, but I think the space is better suited to other modules in a small cases such as this

Bitbox allows me to load samples into my patch.

it's a very big solution for this in such a small rack!!!!

Lots of VCA's, Doepfer A-135-2, Optomix, and x-pan. As well as Attenuators inside modules.

let's rephrase that as 'some vcas' - enough for the audio perhaps - but what about the modulation??? and very little in the way of mixing for either sound or modulation sources... there's not really enough mixing capability for the audio!

Filters, Seju, Chloe MK2, Quarte and Sisters, Too Many?

probably - plaits already has a filter/vca - ie an lpg and you also have optomix - so there's another 3 filters!!!

Chaos provides modulation. OCHD gives 8 random LFOS for modulation.

not enough modulation sources compared to sound generators, imo

Tanh is a limiter and feedback module that I can send Troika into.

Chloe MK2 and Athra MK2 sound absolutely gorgeous. They're tube-driven delay modules, it's hard for me to explain with my newbie brain but they sound beautiful. They act as a sort of effect in this setup.

but what about other effects - reverb, phasing etc - or arre you just going to use

Rosie lets me send the audio out of my rack, also allows me to connect to my pedalboard and send the effects back (I think).

discontinued for quite a while - and will not do the pedalboard thing well - get a separate module (or modules) for this (2 or 3 or 4 aisynthesis pedal integration modules for instance)

if you have a pedal board - are you are guitarist?? - maybe an instrument interface is also a good idea - the sonicsmith ev1 looks to be the best at the moment, but is pricey - as a starter maybe veils and a disting mk4 would be a good idea - veils for more vcas and enough gain for guitar to modular level & disting as it has an envelope/pitch follower - you'll probably also want some logic to extract gates from this

and a better end of chain mixer - you probably don't need an 'output' module...

Hopefully, this makes sense!

maybe to you - but you're ignoring the interesting modules that actually make modular synthesis worthwhile compared to fixed architecture synths - utilities!

see my signature!!! the formula is how to get the most versatility from a modular for the least money... it works and is scalable to any size modular...

I'd want another row to add a couple more effects modules, another modulation source or 2 and some more utilities - at least more mixing (including some sub-mixers and a matrix mixer), sequential switching, offsets, attenuators, slew limiters, logic etc etc

If you are set on all or most of the modules in this case I would seriously suggest a much bigger case - at least 1 more row, preferably 2 - so that you have the space available for all the support modules that you will need to add variety and for some space to expand into after that!

so a complex oscillator... then see advice above..

the instruo cs-l is a complex oscillator which also includes a wavefolder - having checked the manual - it seems that the wavefolder cannot process external signals - so if this is what you want - ie a wavefolder to process signals other than those generated by the c-sl, then yes, you would also require a separate wavefolder - I suspect this is common with most complex oscillators that include wavefolders

a 'bifold' is a specific wavefolder module made by intellijel and as such is not included in the instruo c-sl

complex what? vco, I suspect...
possibly, depends on the complex oscillator and what you want to do - a lot people are quite happy without either...
I don't have a complex oscillator, but I have a lot of wavefolders, which I often use for video synthesis - but sometimes for audio... I'd rather roll my own complex oscillator (from basic oscillators, mixers and wavefolder/shaper)...

I kind of know what you mean about the black sequencer - it's a lot less immediate and demands a lot more effort than the metropolix

I've only played with a metropolis (not metropolix) once, a few years ago, and it was extremely intuitive to use on a basic level - ie I managed to get a sequence going with it in minutes, without the manual etc etc

I've had a black sequencer for a while and it takes a lot more effort to get into ie I still need to consult the manual - but I think that I'll persevere with mine - one thing you could try is creating a sequence on the metropolix and then recording it in the black sequencer - I do agree though it does seem a bit of a waste to just use as a midi->cv converter

you might want to look at cv.ocd, or the module version mutant brain if you decide you want a midi->cv module

13hp is an awkward number of hp to be left with...

all the modules you mention would be good - it's mostly a case of fitting them in...

batumi and poti would fill your 13hp nicely... as would toolbox and rnd step (leaving 3hp over)

if you want the functionality of toolbox then this is one to go for as the last batch of them should be in stores now...

but... Pams should be able to cover the random into sample and hold functionality, as should (iirc) O&C with hemispheres...

I really like batumi and poti, but I'd be tempted to also consider zadar and nin - which can provide some very long complex modulation, which can easily be attenuated to mix with other modulation sources in the matrix mixer... I'd probably go with this and start saving for the next case - to put the other modules in - another very interesting module I'd probably look at is the Xaoc Samara ii - which has an interesting clamp function...

a good habit when you get a case is to charge rack space (ie save the cost of the hp for the module in a piggy bank or savings account) - by the time the case is full there'll be enough cash for the next case...

@modulargrid - thank you!!!

I'm not convinced you do see...

synthesis with modules, as opposed to modular synthesis

not just utilities, although they are a big part, but also basic building block modules... a simple analogue vco etc etc

but yeah could do with load of utilities - everything from switches (manual and sequential) to matrix mixers, to attenuvereters,,, and everything in between - but which and how many of these you need is up to you - once you start with patching some in you might not be able to stop...

Thanks Jim for taking the time to reply and for the chill advice.

NP

I think I will just chill for a bit. There's tonnes of depth with the modules I have and I'm always learning something new about them. I have a favourite module every other day and this often has me thinking that it would now be p[laced somewhere else on the rack. So yeah I think I'll leave well alone for a bit.

Im finding the disting to be a bit of a pain and I'm not really using it. If I decide to swap it out I'll have 5 hp spare. What would be the most useful module for the size in your opinion?

use the favourites and reduce the number of algos you try to use - it really helps...

I dislike odd hp modules - 5hp is a pain to fill - maybe something from bastl - the cinnamon is supposed to be a nice filter

I'm optimistically taking your lack of criticism as a good sign btw ;)

Cheers again Jim

hahaha - no I just disguised the criticism - see the "learn the power of utilities" paragraph! & I didn't see that abomination of a b-company module!

Browsing the forums I am impressed with the knowledge that many members here possess and would really love to here any opinions of what I have built so far.

I'm pretty happy with the modules that I have included but I wonder if there is anything that I have missed which limit the potential of my system.

learn the power of utility modules - they massively add versatility for not so much cash - you'll probably want another row at least just for these though...

I'm also looking for advice on how best to organise the modules for efficiency. I have reorganised the case a few times now and it has definitely improved things. I have found myself patching away and getting completely absorbed in what I'm doing and then when I step back and look at my nest of cables it can be difficult to see what the hell is going on.

there's no formula for this and many many thousands of posts discussing the finer points of module arrangement... the only real answer is: what works for you, works for you... with a small case and few modules such as yours it's not that big a deal... perhaps slightly longer cables and some cable ties, or velcro strips would help... maybe thinner cables... maybe just don't worry about it...

you could get a blank panel and drill it - you may need to wire all the panel furniture and mount the pcb somewhere in the case...

it's very synthesis with modules...

hello, enjoy modular grid.

Im not sure if this exists but it would be great to have a section on the site for "latest modules" or "Newest Modules"
or add a filter to the module finder for year created.

thx
-- tunnelsurf

it already exists, order by: Newest...

The reason I added MD is it seemed like a nice way to quickly generate a random sequence. I will get back to remaking this some another time.
-- aedvig

black sequencer has that too - check out magic...

and linked

some suggestions:

let's start with mixing:

it doesn't look to me as though you are intending to use an external mixer - as you have the doepfer output module... but there's no end of chain mixer and no mono to stereo conversion - you have a mix of mono and stereo sound sources/sound modifiers - get something big enough that you can mix all your (processed) sound sources and place them in the stereo field - that means panning - you may want cv control over this - you may find that this means multiple modules - there are very few mixers that have mono and stereo inputs with cv-able panning on the mono inputs and send/return functionality - but you might find that a large mixer solves a lot of problems... hexmix & expander & hexvca or wmd performance mixer or tesseract tex-mix might be worth looking at - these mixers will satisfy most of the criteria above (to a greater or lesser extent) including the send/return which is really handy for the fx aid - you might want another 1 or 2 of these - delay/reverb/lofi - or something similar... and quite importantly, they have stereo master outputs and headphone sockets - so you can dump the doepfer module...

& there's not a lot of sub-mixing... so no mixing the 2 vcos in the 258t before hitting a filter for example...

the liivatera mixer is very large and would probably be better replaced with multiple smaller mixers - for example a couple of 3*MIA - remember that you will want to mix both audio and cv

there's a lot of gate to trigger channels, which you probably don't need - maybe keep the g&t - dump the ladik...

lfos: i'd dump the ochd and the eowave and replace with a batumi

vcas: I'd want more - dump both and get a couple of veils... again - you will want to vca both audio and cv

filters: ok 3 is about right - you might find you want a 4th dual/stereo one down the line

sequencing: I'd consideer swapping both the hermod and the md out for an erica black sequencer - 4 channels of up to 64 steps, with gate/quantized cv/modulation and mutes (better to mute the cv than the audio!!) for each and you can plug in a midi keyboard to record sequences - and the interface is much more ergonomic than the md - which if you wanted to use it for generating 'notes', you would also need a quantizer - maybe a 4 channel one... and/or possibly a sequential switch...

other modules: you might find you want a waveshaper - really useful with the 258t, an lpg and some more utilities: a sequential switch, a matrix mixer, some logic... take a look at my signature to find a rough guide to how to get the most versatile modular synth for the least money...

so I think it might be a good idea to add an extra row and I'd probably go for 104hp instead of 84hp - it looks like this is a DIY case so an extra row is relatively inexpensive - remember you do not need to fill it all at once - it's better to go slowly - but I think you will want more space to expand into in the future - based on the row power rack warts there's plenty of power - make sure you buy proper bus boards, to avoid rf issues with flying ones...

oh and Maths - keep Maths - it's a great module - even better if you work your way through the 'maths illustrated supplement' a few times and spend some time working out why it's doing what it's doing

EDITED Mar 4th 2022, 17:36

you'll also want an instrument interface - the sonicsmith ev1 - seems to be the best in lots of ways - apparently the pitch tracking is great for single note runs etc - don't think it can handle chords - but nothing else can either

-- JimHowell1970

It's actually the Sonicsmith ConVertor E1. I just got the module. It does a pretty good job of pitch tracking both diatonic and chromatic harmonica. Haven't tried it with anything else. It's not perfect by any means and glitches here and there. Also the firmware needs an update to get all the advertised features. I think it's coming Q2 this year.

-- ScottyDizzle

yes, I know, I was using my old and failing memory...

Good points on the Maths vs. 3xMIA. Being a newb - and not knowing what you don't know - isn't helpful. I think I'll plan for the 3xMIA in future expansion. I really should go through that patch guide for Maths to know exactly what it entails.

working your way through the 'maths illustrated supplement' a few times is a great start - spend some time working out what it's doing too, not just patching - but thinking - the time investment really pays off - same with disting - use favourites to set up a sub group of algos that don't overwhelm and learn them - when you find an algo that really resonates - then put that on a list to replace with a module - for both going slowly is probably a good idea

With regard to uO_C - I'm on the fence. I'm leaning on holding off and leaving space to populate with a few 2 HP modules and FX AID... not sure if going with the XL version is in the cards.

I'd agree, to some extent - hold off, but skip the 2hp modules (they're not very ergonomic) and get the fx aid xl, as it is both more ergonomic and more versatile, especially if you want some weird fx - more modulation inputs, more space for the knobs

The issue at the moment is I'm not sure what I'm trying to solve. Or I should say I haven't learned enough of my current gear to know what is truly missing. Yeah... I'd say generally FX and sequencing. I'm thinking it's best to take my time with the last 11HP and not make any rash decisions. I guess the question is... what will have the most impact on what I can do within current confines?
-- ScottyDizzle

if you don't currently have a problem to solve, I'd stand back learn what you have and from there what you are missing, in the meantime save your pennies, for both another case and for more modules - although the mafd does seem to be a good idea

what are you currently using to sequence? the moogs?

Ceiling. Definitely the ceiling...and a pile of carriage bolts.

or floor - I currently have 3 cases on my living room floor and a video monitor on the coffee table!!!

More seriously, if you're going to have an audio input, you'll also want it to output envelope signals. Have a look at Doepfer's A-119, which is pretty much the standard for these. Not only do you get the necessary preamp, you also get an envelope follower AND a comparator. The comparator sends a gate when the input level exceeds a certain threshold, and the envelope follower does pretty much what it sounds like: it extracts level information from the inputted signal and then converts the amplitude variations as a control voltage...which, if you run the audio signal through a VCF and then use the envelope follower to control the VCF's cutoff, giving you your original sound but with this synced-up filter sweep imposed on it.
-- Lugia

whilst I completely agree with the need for both envelope follower and comparator for external inputs - it might be useful to point out that there's a 1/2 decent envelope/pich follower algo in disting - and kinks will do the comparator - so if they're not needed all the time - maybe these will suffice...

EDITED Mar 1st 2022, 19:11

looks ok to me

I don't see a lot of duplication - the 3 doepfer vcos can be combined into a 3 osc sound source, beads can also be used as a delay... so I wouldn't worry about that... I imagine you are using plaits for hats - I do this too quite a lot, but I find it needs a - but I'd probably add something for that - to free up plaits for different duties

missing utilities - yes - that's where I would add things, instead of removing things - options are good, more options is better - & it's usually what gets ignored - especially when buying a reasonable number of modules in a short time - they may seem boring, as they don't make or alter sound - but they are essential for plumbing - see my signature!

some more sub-mixers: a couple for the triple doepfers, 1 for the standard doepfer, 1 for tides - to mix waveforms etc, 1 for percussion - so that all percussion is on either a single mono or stereo channel - so maybe a panning mixer, if you want stereo percussion

a matrix mixer or 2: mix 4 copied modulation sources - get 4 more complex, yet related, modulation signals out, send/return, feedback etc

maybe a stereo mixer: mix stereo sources - beads, blades etc - then either send those to the roland mixer - that way you only take up 2 channels for all the stereo sources

more vcas: you can never have too many of these - I'd add more cascading ones - always useful - another veils perhaps...

a sequential switch: so you can switch things about over time - the a-151 is fine and reasonably priced

maybe a stages - very versatile, not only for modulation, which you possibly have enough of, but also sample and hold and trigger/gate delays - but you could always just add these as separate modules (yes I see you have a sample and hold in kinks - excellent module - but more will always be a bonus)

I'd also be tempted to add a fx aid xl - extremely versatile - Igor is a star for adding more and more algorithms... there are now filters and drum algos as well as the plethora of delay and reverb effects & not to forget lofi settings and bit reduction!

I could easily fill another 6u with these - but I'd spread them out...

virtually no utilties -how are you mixing?

plaits has a filter built in... although there's no harm putting it through another one to warm it up/darken it a bit

I'd go for a bigger case, either 9u or 104hp, or both, if you want all these modules - just to add a selection of utilities - see my signature!!!!!

How I use my sequential switch - a-151

2-4 sources -> inputs
output -> input on a module

or

outputs -> 2-4 inputs
source -> input

trigger into trigger in to step through them

sources and destination can be pretty much anything - audio of cv, as the a-151 is effectively passive (yes I know it draws a bit of current, but the switchng is passive, I've also had it switching video

switch cab be set to 2.3 or 4 - gaps in i/o are fine

or start hanging cases on the wall!

Wow, what a monster. So, this is where the buy a bigger case mentality leads...

-- Vow3ll

hahaha, no it's where DIY and video modular leads... I've only ever bought 2 cases & I often think that if I'd been able to buy a mantis first and been able to add Maths to the modules I first bought, without buying that second case, that I'd've been able to stop there... but who knows and who cares - I certainly don't

bigger desk?

don't waste money on small cases - yet - just get another 6u rackbrute - or better yet sell the rackbrute and buy a couple of mantis (when you can)

yeah this one looks vaguely correct
upside down stuff is diy backlog - I'm pretty sure that some is missing (probably 3 or 4 DIY video modules) - or in the case of chromagnon - pre-ordered about 2 years ago...

but I don't think it's going to help you...

there are 8 cases in total - 2 * 9u / 104hp, 2 * 9u /84hp, 2 * 6u / 84hp, 1 * 6u / 72hp, 1 * 6u / 104hp (mantis)

and just at the moment - it's all over the place - cos I'm playing with 3 cases in the living room...

I'd definitely try working out how to use the black sequencer properly 1st...

you can do a lot in terms of clock division and turning gates on and off per channel - so a single clock source into the black sequencer - or using the internal clock - doesn't mean you are playing all 4 channels at the same speed - they will be at related speeds - and euclidean rhythms won't work - very well - but you have another sequencer anyway... it's nice to bounce a euclidean sequence of a non-euclidean one

matrix mixer: difficult to tell as there are a lot of black patch cables - but I suspect he's taking the 2 sequencers which are running at different speeds and mixing them together in different proportions - before sending to vcos, probably via quantizers

EDITED Feb 28th 2022, 05:09

hmm - well it's your money! personally that doesn't work for me - having no money means I spend less money - not no space left in cases... I've got at least 300hp free space in my cases - blind panels and panels for diy backlog...

the rack:
too many sound sources in too small a case
ergonomic nightmare:- too many small modules together - disting is a pita with modules that have knobs or jack near the knobs, switch needs to move so that it's at an edge, for the same reason... filter knobs look unusable etc etc etc
steppy and pams - would lose steppy for noise tools if possible...
fx aid and the intellijel - probably wouldn't pick both in a tiny case...

how are you intending to sequence pitch???

hope this helps!

@Broken-Form

outputs to modulation inputs on other modules

adjust attenuverters to set ranges

turn knob (or use input - use attenuator as needed) to change value at output...

imagine the attenuverter for output 1 is set to about 9 o'clock - roughly -0.5

as you move the knob from fully counter clockwise (0) to fully clockwise (1), the value of output 1 will move from 0-> -0.5

etc etc

I think this is a very short term solution - so I'd still get the bigger case - yes it's going to cost a bit more - BUT - if you are like most people you will want more as soon as you can afford it - and this way you are prepared...

remember you don't need to fill the case immediately or ever, for that matter - blind panels are your friend...

@Broken-Form

4 modulation sources -> 4 inputs of seq switch
output of sequential switch -> modulation input of some module
some trigger source -> switch input

1 modulation source -> input of sequential switch
outputs of seq switch -> 4 different modulation inputs
some trigger source -> switch input

2 sequencers -> 2 inputs of seq switch
output of seq switch -> vco pitch input
some trigger source (possibly last or first step from one of the sequencers) -> switch input

remember to switch no of steps in the seq switch 2,3,4

remember that switch is bi-directional - inputs become outputs and vice versa depending on how it's patched

examples refer to the doepfer a-151 - but may also apply equally to other sequential switches

EDITED Feb 28th 2022, 03:36

the pre-amp might help - but you will still be very quiet within a modular system

you may be able to get away with going straight in to the modular and skipping the pre-amp

you'll still need something to get up to modular level - an instrument interface or a vca that actually amplifies like veils for example

you'll probably also want an envelope follower, gate extractor and possibly a pitch follower

some instrument interfaces will include one or more of these - sonicsmith e1 has all of them and more, i believe

envelope and pitch following are available in the disting in the same algo - so available at the same time - definitely on mk4 and ex, not sure about earlier versions

gate extractor is basic logic - high when envelope is above a certain voltage...

nb pitch extraction is often glitchy - and very glitchy when trying to process anything other than clean single notes

try refreshing your rack before re linking it

There is no Neutron in the case. I assume you’ve commented on some old version. Whatever you said is probably very accurate and well reasoned but not applicable.
-- The-Invisible-Hand-Of-CV

unless I'm imagining things there is a neutron in the case pictured above - maybe the thumbnail is out of date - try refreshing the rack and then re-linking!

@mikeleebirds

EDITED Feb 26th 2022, 00:54

there are definitely scope apps for iPhone - probably for Android too -but you'd have to find the one that works for you - can't say I've ever needed a scope though in 5-6 years of modular - I'd rate them as nice to have, rather than crucial - except for a few DIY builds

I'm a very visual person, so I like having a view on how the wave reacts to certain changes, like modulation. So I'm going to get a headphone dongle for my iphone (like, yeah, it was too expensive to add one into the phone itself) and do some research on that.

headphone dongle wont' really help except for audio - for low frequencies you'd still need a dc-coupled interface and a usb dongle for the phone - nb you only get 2 channels this way

nb there's dc-coupled and there's dc-coupled - something advertised as such will definitely be dc-coupled on outputs - but not necessarily on inputs...

The Motu M4 indeed has DC coupled outputs. DC coupling is new to me (like so many things), so some work to do here. I guess DC coupled out only means I can use it to send data from VCV Rack to the modular, but not vice versa? In that case, tuning with VCV Rack won't work. I just read an RME is similar to my M4, so I'd like to understand what you mean exactly here.

Anyway, as my primary aim is to uncouple myself from the dreaded PC screen that I spend all day in front of, I consider this a nice to have. It will remain in my studio rack and I won't be moving it into the Intellijel 7U case.

having mostly been in the same situation for most of my adult life, I've never had an issue being in front of a computer for a bit longer in order to do stuff I want to do - use a DAW, etc and for a long time if I wanted to watch any tv or movies it was also in front of a computer...

they're much more like buttons - MPC style pads, I guess - not like drumpads you can hit with a drumstick!

Yes, but at least they're velocity sensitive, unlike the SQ-64.

not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though

Yeah, I'm not aiming at more. There's plenty of oscillators in the big version but they can be used for modulation as well.

-- Arrandan

I try to keep lfos separate - every time I buy a module that'll do both - I end up using them for vco's - tides, tides2, cali - all work as both lfos and/or envelope generators - but sound great as vcos - so they end up being used as vcos - and I try to forget that some of the lfos, filters, envelope generators etc I have can also be used as vcos - otherwise I'd end up with patches with all vcos and virtually nothing left for modulation, filtering etc

With modulation, I meant wave modulation actually. I agree that LFOs are better kept separate. It's why I have the A145-4 in there. LFOs serve one purpose, VCOs another and as with my short rant about O&C, I don't like tools that mix up purposes.

I don't really see any wavetable oscillators - I think I'd want a more ergonomic quad lfo...

Aside from this rather very interesting discussion, is there anything you think is wrong or missing from the basic setup? Having played with a similar setup in VCV Rack, it feels like a good starting point to me.

And thanks for all your help!
-- Arrandan

yes: there are still issues:

temps utile, random triggers, clock divider and multiplier, buffered mults and harmonaig all seem a little superfluous - you have 8 trigger outs and 2 cv/gate/velocity outputs (all with probability iirc) on the BSP and no percussion and only 2 vcos in the rack...

in the larger rack - the droid stuff seems to be in a similar place - the chipz I would replace with a Maths, the 2 dvcas I'd replace with a veils - and I'm not convinced of the need for 2 dplrs - and I'm not convinced about the mix solution - no panning and no send/returns...

The only reason you'd need an oscilloscope in a typical studio...and it's a BIG one...is to check stereo phasing on your mixdowns. This becomes VERY critical if you're doing dance stuff, bass-heavy tracks, as you don't want panning and especially not out of phase signals in the frequency range below 120 Hz if the track in question is destined for vinyl.

Now, the other sort of display I'd recommend isn't a scope...but an RTA. Real-time Analyzers let you see the levels across the entire sound spectrum, and they can come in handy when trying to chase down hard-to-kill frequency "lumps" that're jumping out of the mix. And if you don't have a reliable set of monitors (and why wouldn't you? your monitor chain is probably THE MOST CRITICAL DEVICE in the studio), you can use the RTA to try and fix the discrepancies in the mix that your monitors are causing. But as far as that's concerned, I reiterate...they're the most critical part, and THEY should be fixed if you know you've got issues, tbh.
-- Lugia

can;t both of these be handled in a DAW? and the phasing issues be handled (at least to a large extent) by checking the mix in mono? which especially for bass heavy dance music is a pretty important step - as most clubs sound systems are effectively mono...

yes - get a bigger case

the intellijel case is quite pricey - I'd go for a mantis instead (if you can find one - I see deliverys scheduled soonish in some EU/UK shops) - about 1/2 the price and plastic not aluminium case - the case for them is inexpensive and 1/2 decent these days - nb you wont notice the case once it's full and patched!

1 - good choices - I'd go veils over the intellijel quad though - slightly smaller by 2hp - you might find either a dedicated envelope follower or a dedicated lfo a good thing to add to that set of modules - Maths is great, but it's much better when you patch-program it and don't think of it as just a set of simple functional blocks - see the 'maths illustrtrated supplement' (via google)

you'll also want an instrument interface - the sonicsmith ev1 - seems to be the best in lots of ways - apparently the pitch tracking is great for single note runs etc - don't think it can handle chords - but nothing else can either

if you don't need pitch tracking - there are a number of input modules with envelope following and gate extraction - both are things you really want - and if in the future you want to add pitch following there's one in disting - which is supposed to be not bad - and disting is kind of like Maths in that it's a swiss army knife module - can do lots of things but only 1 at a time - can be daunting if you try to use too many different algos too quickly - just pick a few and set them up as favourites

as a guitarist your hands will be used playing the guitar - consider an expression pedal interface so you can get some control with your feet - addac, doepfer and 7dials all make them - 7 dials is DIY though but as a student you may be able to find someone who'll do an hours soldering for you for not much, or will teach you - if of course you can't solder yourself already!

2 - an audio interface... maybe you already have one and this will definitely work for audio - you may find you need attenuation and amplification - or balanced inputs - you may or may not need a i/o module - I'd try veils for amplification and some passive attenuators before a dedicated i/o module - unless you need balance i/o for your existng audio interface (which I doubt as it's a small prosumer one - at least it's got 4 outs - anything less is a waste of time)

3 - hands and ears and time - read manuals and if you don't understand something in them ask questions (& google 1st - someone else probably already asked the same question before) - remember outputs to inputs - a few passive mults and or stackcables will massively help...

EDITED Feb 25th 2022, 18:09