Erica Synths Pico System III Eurorack - good starting point?

I am new to modular, and looking for a good way to get started without knowing exactly what sets of modules I want to start with. I came across the Pico System III Eurorack version and it seemed like it could be a great first module for a Eurorack system, however after searching around (including in this forum) I found very little evidence of ANYONE using this in a Eurorack. I saw some cool demos of the desktop version, but no discussion of it within the Eurorack communities I checked.

Is this something I'd end up wanting to get rid of once I got familiar with Eurorack? It seems cool, but considering I haven't found any evidence of people using it in their Eurorack systems, I feel I would have a hard time selling a eurorack version of it.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Would I be better off getting the desktop version due to the resalability?

the usual way to get into eurorack is to spend a fuckload of time researching (months if not years) - so that you actually know what modules are before even looking at the pretty pictures - or you could just get a semi

whilst the pico system seems to be a reasonably well specc'ed system - there are drawbacks - the main one being that the individual modules (yes I know there's only 1 panel in the system) are all very small - usually best sandwiched between 2 bigger modules so that there is space to get to the control and the jacks and in this case they are sandwiched between 2 modules the same size they are

I think the only market for this (either as a rack module or as a standalone desktop unit) is beginners - so your re-sale market is starters who particularly want to get trapped with these modules

personally I would do the research, save the pennies, try and actually play with a modular either at a store or through someone locally and then buy a case and a few modules that you actually want and have a decent idea about what they do - rather than rushing into buying a system that you can't see any users of

it may be that after having done the research then you still decide you want this 'module' - then at least you are not going into it blind - as you appear to be

EDITED Aug 9th 2020, 19:55

What are you hoping to do music-wise? Do you have any other gear?

I view the PICO III as a really well thought out instrument having everything you need, not just to get started, but as a full system. On the other hand I think the most active users of modular forums are more interested in making a highly personal instrument of all their favorite sounds, modulation and effects.

Both approaches are valid.

If you want to get started right away making bleeps, bloops and music the PICO III system (or any other full system or semi-modular) will get you there. If you're more interested in the finicky details of Maths VS Rampage VS Falisri VS Contour VS (insert dozens of others here), then explore by buying a module or two at a time and figuring out how they work together. Then adding or selling off modules as you go.

I came across the Pico System III Eurorack version and it seemed like it could be a great first module for a Eurorack system, however after searching around (including in this forum) I found very little evidence of ANYONE using this in a Eurorack.
-- hurphendale

There are reasons for this. First reason is that the Pico III isn't a "module". It's a full synth. It has modular architecture but it's not a true module, so it's a wee bit off-topic for MG. Also, most savvy users here don't wind up cab-mounting their Pico III or other cased-but-rackables because, well, it's a waste of money and space to rehouse and repower something that already has those things from the factory.

And the third reason only becomes a problem if you have fat, sausage-y fingers; when you space a pile of 3 hp modules all together as one like that, tweaking the controls is a BITCH...and things such as VCF cutoffs and the like BEG to be tweaked. 2 hp and 3 hp (and some denser 4 hp) modules are great for hole-filling, but they're best left to things that don't require constant attention, such as VCAs, etc.

I'm with Jim above on this...but to add one other salient point: unless you know how something like a modular (or anything else!) will fit into your workflow, and how it can enhance your music, you might want to go with a prepatched rig, or some of the more interesting tandemmed prebuilds that are starting to appear. More expensive, sure...but if I were about to dive into this, I'd rather spend a bit more money for something of a more complete system...something like a Make Noise 0-CTRL/0-Coast pair, Pittsburgh's Voltage Research Lab, a Kilpatrick Phenol, Soundmachines Modulor114, etc. Even one of Korg's new ARP 2600 FS would be optimal here (save for the fact that they're quite unobtainable, something which Korg deserves LOADS of flung poo over, still!) The Pico III is OK for what it has, but more $$$ does tend to equal a more comprehensive synth in most cases. But first, determine where this would fit in what you create. Otherwise, this can be a hella expensive Pandora's box to open!

Thank you all for the informative replies. I come from a music background, been playing in live bands most of my life, and over the past 4 years or so have been slowly getting more in to electronic music composition. I started on volcas and groove boxes, after a number of various pieces of gear I've currently settled on the Deluge as my centerpiece, I also have a Crave which I use paired often.

The more I've learned about electronic music, composition, and specifically flexibility of designing systems of rules from which music emerges has continued to lead me down the road into modular.

You've all convinced me that the Pico System is probably not the best first dive into eurorack for me. I understand that I'm not necessarily going to love every piece of gear I get along the way, and as I learn I'd like to have the flexibility to re-use or resell pieces of gear. @Lugia thanks for the suggestions, I have been looking at the Soundmachines Modulor114 and it looks pretty awesome. Something that could be re-sold as a stand-alone unit or mounted into a eurorack case (or kept separate but paired) is much more attractive, plus is sounds amazing!

@farkas I am going for mostly ambient pads and rythmic variance with analogue percussion. I am also looking to make my eventual system as generative as possible, which would allow me to run it as an accompaniment to the Deluge, as melodic ideas I generally scratch out on the Deluge.

I found a DFAM being sold second-hand by someone who actually lives in my neighborhood and plan to get that for now, pairing with my Crave and using my Deluge as an effects processor + extra CV and Gate as I experiment and learn more about modular. I figure this is a good starting point for now as the DFAM is pretty unique (resale value), is self housed + can be mounted in a eurorack, and is a good starting point for expansion if I decide to pick up a few modules (like Maths, for example) I could easily set up a little moog 2-3 tier stand. And at some point I may still go for that Modulor114 :)

Thanks for the advice everyone, I plan to take things slow and grow only as I learn and maybe hit some walls. Any tips on great ways to interface the Deluge with modular would be welcome. Cheers.

EDITED Aug 12th 2020, 13:36

generally sounds like a good plan

I would suggest not going for the 2-3 tier moog 60hp case strategy though

they work out quite expensive by the time you've powered them

the best decent (in terms of power and build quality), reasonably priced cases are still imo the doepfer LC6 with the PSU3 and the TipTop Audio Mantis and probably will be next year and the year after etc

and neither of them use a power module - so you get all the space you buy for modules you want - not loosing 4hp or so per case

Plus one more inexpensive cab solution: Erica. Their stuff has pretty good build quality, plus they don't skimp on current with their power supplies, which have a great on-the-busboard design. They also have extra optional end-cap hardware available for these, so it's possible to stack up a build that has the Moog 60 hp form factor, but which actually has some real space to spread out in AND which is already powered and ready to go.

When starting out, I did a 3-Tier Moog 104hp skiff build. At the time, it might have presented lower upfront cost, but with my planned build growth rate of only two years, I really only ate $775. Here's a breakdown:

Moog or Make Noise 104hp unpowered skiffs x 3 = $300
Moog 3-tier rack kit $70
uZeus power supplies x 3 = $255
uZeus Power adapters x3 = $105
Flying bus board cable expanders x 3 = $45

Completed Moog 3x104hp case build: $775

Cost of Pittsburgh Modular EP-420 case with clean, protected power and all required hardware: $849

I tore down that Moog build and am now gifting each 104hp powered skiff to friends getting into modular. It's nice to be able to do that, but I'm almost certain that at least one of them will do what I did. ;-) I'm reattaching the 3-tier metal frame to my two M32's and adding a DFAM, so using as originally intended.

Something I learned from folks here and MW: Have a good plan and make good use of it.

@JimHowell1970 I think its a bit harsh to criticize someone for wanting to try out modular with the System III Eurorack. Like the OP, I have a bunch of synths Ive been playing with and have spent the best part of a year looking at modules / systems / cases and educating myself on the ins and outs of modular before buying anything (which, for some of us, is a big investment). Surely how something feels and sounds is a purely subjective thing? Yeah, its small (some of us like that) and yeah it has less modules than the System II (which is like three times the cost), but if you go in knowing its all of these things, and maybe looking at it as something to learn on, that's not to be sneered at.

In my case, I wanted to keep things small but have room to add some modules, especially ones that come as standard on the System II and are not present on the System III. So I have a small Moog 60hp case with the Pico System III 42hp module which gives me a few hp to add some more modules later. Yeah, Ill outgrow this (I like the size and look of the Moog 60hp cases so I bought a 3-tier rack already :-) or maybe I won't, but I haven't spent a ton of money in the process (so far < $700) while Im educating myself. Erica Synths make some nice gear and are to be applauded for trying to make modular more accessible.

Hi Ajai,

And I feel you are a bit harsh towards JimHowel1970 :-)

A new user was asking for feedback, JimHowel1970 provided his honest feedback, what's against that? Perhaps we should try to value more the contents and values of feedback and advice rather than being too sensitive for how that might have been meant? I believe JimHowel1970 was just being honest here.

Of course you are being honest here as well, and that's good too :-)

My personal opinion/thought with if people ask feedback and/or advice is... be glad that you received feedback & advice (it can contain valuable information), filter for yourself the value of that for your situation and if you feel a bit upset... yes... that's of course sometimes not nice but I believe here in this forum we all just try to help each other, nothing else (no hidden agenda's).

And the best of all: if you receive advice, it doesn't mean you have to follow up on that, one can decide to follow up on that... or not :-)

Being honest here, not trying to insult anyone or not trying to be harsh here and with kind regards, Garfield.

@Ajai - No offence was intended - and I see no (harsh) criticism - I just see facts - sometimes these are hard for us to deal with - possibly lost in translation or you are being over sensitive for some reason

I see no point whatsoever in sugar coating 'criticism' - that would impart ambiguity where none is intended

I do see the first line of your post as completely inaccurate though - no offense taken - I'm a thick skinned northern Englishman!

@Garfield -

I'm a thick skinned northern Englishman!

Im from the Midlands myself (I live in New York now) so Im familiar...

I see no (harsh) criticism - I just see facts - sometimes these are hard for us to deal with - possibly lost in translation

You said:

whilst the pico system seems to be a reasonably well specc'ed system - there are drawbacks - the main one being that the individual modules (yes I know there's only 1 panel in the system) are all very small - usually best sandwiched between 2 bigger modules so that there is space to get to the control and the jacks and in this case they are sandwiched between 2 modules the same size they are

If someone is looking at the Pico, they are already well aware its a small system with tiny modules - some of us are OK with that or even prefer it - don't have a problem with tiny modules / knobs.

Also you said:

so your re-sale market is starters who particularly want to get trapped with these modules

Why would you be "trapped" ? Like no-one would possibly want to buy a small modular to learn on? Yes, its a beginner system, to learn on, but that's OK that's the point. The OP mentioned he already has a bunch of synths so at least he has some knowledge he can use. There are plenty if videos out there of people patching this - hopefully the OP has watched some.

But my main point is I've been in that position as a beginner and coming to forums like this can be intimidating and its all too easy to dampen enthusiasm or turn people off.

@Ajai

you'd be surprised how many people are shocked by the size of eurorack when it actually lands in their hands - despite having watched countless videos etc because they've never actually seen one in real life

I still see nothing critical - in fact I specifically state that it's a well specc'ed system - just that there are some drawbacks that they may not have thought about - namely size and potential resale market

maybe I shouldn't have used the word "trapped", a slight over exaggeration perhaps, but really I haven't got time to search through a thesaurus to find a word that means trapped, but less so

if any of this is enough to put anyone off, or dull their enthusiasm for, modular, then they really weren't into it in the first place - that was in no way my intention and I truly believe that the more modular synthesists there are the better