How to deal with dubious traders?

The marketplace exists for 2 years now. It's a place where strangers buy and sell stuff over the internet and so I am somewhat amazed that I am hearing very little complains about dubious transactions.

But there are people who had problems. For them it is worth nothing, that it's working pretty fine for everyone else.

In most cases people complain about defective modules, but there are cases where users reported that they never received anything. When two parties are involved there are always two opinions. One shouting fraud, the other shouting liar.

I have no idea how to deal with these situations and I cannot decide who is right and who is not.
I have a bad feeling about banning people on the call of others. I am also not sure if a bad trader thread won't lead to even more drama when users find themselves wrongfully on a list.
I like to hear some opinion.

Beep, Bopp, Bleep: [email protected]

Hello,
it's been two years i'm on modulargrid and enjoy it. I made nice trades with various people but lately had a bad one. I won't name this person but since i paid him via paypal i have no response and still waiting my module (wich i assume will never arrive). How can i deal with it? Paypal won't refund me since it's not a commercial trade.
A feedback system would be a good thing to start with...

I think this is a special community and if your choosing to trade, shit can happen.. If it does.. Own your shit and deal with it as a team to satisfy the desires of the parties involved BOTH to the best of the ability. I would bend over backwards if I seen another is being reasonable.. In the same respect, be reasonable. Talk it out. It's not that odd that both can have pleasing outcomes ;)

Not sure if this is the place

User @christophefur has listings up and is basically taking loans on modules and not selling them. I purchased a Rings from him and after the time he told me he'd ship, he had not and was not responding to my messages asking for an update. I noticed he changed the listing the day after I purchased from only accepting Venmo, to accepting Paypal and Venmo. He then told me a bunch of personal info he was going through and how he was going to refund me, but he doesn't have the money at the moment and that he didn't actually want to sell the modules, which means he spent my money and kept the goods I purchased.

He has a Braids for sale and I would use extreme caution if you're going to purchase. From what our exchange was he has no intention to sell, you will be loaning him money.

How about a rating system, or a small comment section on the advertisment page where people can give comments on their experience with the seller.
This way you can decide if you trust the seller based on multiple opinions?
And you wont have too search the forum to find out about it.

Now he's even pretending to have cancer and asking for donations in addition to the price of the modules. Best way to avoid fraud is to ask them to send a pic of the module before buying and then do a reverse image search to see if they stole it from online.

But yes EVERYONE SHOULD BE AWARE that @christophefur is actual human garbage who trivializes life-ruining diseases and steals from others.

The prices of those modules already rang an alarm bell. No way someone would sell all those Mutable modules for that low. Elements for under $300??? His description also makes zero mention of the condition the modules are in, shipping details, stuff people usually clarify for buyers.

Holy Hell mods please do something to find out whether or not this is real.

He had a sob story for me when he didn't send me my module. The price should've been a flag.

Is this real or is he making this up? I didn't see anything on any other of his social media accounts.

I advertised he is a scammer on each module page he was selling. He has since removed all of his modules. I think this is good enough to remove this person.

He has since removed all of his modules.

I have send him a message he did not answer so I have removed his module offers.

Beep, Bopp, Bleep: [email protected]

Would it be possible to simply require commercial payment via PayPal or other services that allow arbitration through their infrastructure so you do not have to deal with it and we can have confidence in our purchase? If someone is unwilling to sell via a commercial account, perhaps their listing is too risky for everyone involved. I have purchased via the market place and did not have an issue, but I paid via the PayPal business option.

-FF

I think that paypal's buyer protection on the goods/services buying option is a way to instill some confidence in a buyer. If the seller refuses to accept goods/services than I take the extra 3.5% or so of pp's charges for the seller. If the seller STILL refuses to accept the commercial payment I start getting very selective. Only when the seller has a track record of good conduct I will buy from him. Once I had more than one successful transaction I will gladly go to friends/family. Never had a bad transaction that way.

While it may be possible to make the commercial transaction mandatory, as forum operator I wouldn't go there. The only safe way for him is to strictly keep out of any legal involvement in forum member's dealings.

Well, in the end every one is responsible for his actions and any consequences thereof. When I'm buying from a forum member I will always check:

  • date of registration
  • number of posts
  • number of racks
  • accounts on other forums
  • other traces of activity on the internets

If all that amounts to a profile of a well behaved active netizen with a good reputation all around I will buy.
If it doesn't I will move on. While no single item on the list is a a reliable indicator, all of them will tell me.

In other words, if I buy without protection from a member who registered just shortly, with no references to other internet activities, has made 0 posts, rated 0 modules, has 1 empty rack but a dozen modules on offer for cheap --- I'm probably very stupid.

I would have to respectfully disagree. IMO, running a site is not simply about building an environment where people can interact as they please; that is, if I can get away with it, then it is fair game. One would imagine that the site operator would create an environment where people would want to come visit and feel secure exchanging money and items. Mandating secure exchanges between users does not in anyway make ModularGrid liable for outcomes. In fact, providing a safe haven for con-artists and then throwing up your hands because the careless buyer did not see the con coming is far more legally hazardous. This is not about being a good or bad netizen either; it is about commerce and growing/maintaining a site. More buyers and sellers will participate in the market if there are protections in place–protections that ModularGrid has no role in providing or enforcing, which decreases the work load entailed in responding to user complaints, while potentially increasing traffic. PayPal and other services have provided an infrastructure to avoid these problems, and it is a solution that decreases rather than increases a buyer's risk, and decreases rather than increases the site's need to attend to these issues. A solution to a con that says, "Treat buyer's like adults and demand they be more discerning," is a solution with an unacceptable fail rate. If the site operator wants to limit rip-off artists from setting up camp in their market, requiring accountability is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I am totally fine with things as they are. I've never had an issue, but if things are left as they are, then the site operator will continue to field emails and messages about the thieves and bad actors in our midst. If the this thread's purpose was to discuss changes to the status quo, then there is a solution.