request input: sequence / switch OSC "sweet spots" (as in FM, etc.)?

Hi folks,

Good news, I'm making enough learning progress on my modular setup to be able to find some real nice timbral sweet spots, such as in the complex oscillators like Make Noise DPO and other complex generators.

Makes me wonder, let's say I find 4 good "sweet spots" for a given patching, what are elegant ways of going from "sweet spot" 1,2,3,4 with switching, sequencing, morphing, etc.? For example if I have a setup involving FM and find a couple different settings giving me good (but different) FM timbres, what's the elegant / efficient way to move between those settings in a patch setup? Obviously I don't want to do stuff by hand all the time because I can't perform that fast or accurately enough.

And of course, some timbral "sweet spots" may rely on 2+ input settings, such as pitch plus FM depth. So I would need to be able to manage changing multiple input values. On the DPO it would be easy to imagine wanting to change pitch, FM depth, and the wavefolder settings, for example, to go from "sweet spot" 1 to 2 to 3, etc.

Is there a good way to satisfy this "setting and switching between sweet spots" task in modular? Feel free to recommend techniques, patching and/or specific modules.

Thanks everyone!

Nicholas

EDITED Jun 25th 2021, 23:06

I recently recommended the FSS Makrow to someone on this forum for just this purpose. It has 6 CV outs that can be configured to your preferred voltages (+ or -) and then you can morph between these "macro" settings with the turn of a single knob (the knob is also CV controllable if you would prefer to be hands-off). I think it's a genius module.
I think Endorphin.es may have just released a similar module too, but I don't have any experience with that one.

Thanks @farkas!

Yes Makrow is worth a serious look for this application! Doing more internet search on this topic, Addac306 looks very similar to FSS Makrow. Tiptop Z8000 might be a fit from a sequencing perspective. Are there other good candidates / techniques to consider here?

Of course the span between sweet spots is sometimes nice sounding, sometimes terrible, depending on the patch. So sometimes I want to sweep the control value, whereas other times I would need to step it.... All this also makes me wonder if there are quantizers that can be set to arbitrary (non scalar) values without a tuning input file; basically a quantizer with knobs that lets you set any step values? With one of those, I could feed any CV input (say a lfo) and custom tune the output to 2 or more "sweet spot" values (which would then feed DPO FM timbre controls).

I do own attenuverters with offset (SISM etc.), so I do have existing options for timbre control with standard CV and/or sequencing. Just trying to go further and have a good scheme for controlling / switching / sequencing a patch's timbre sweet spots, including FM patching.

EDITED Jun 28th 2021, 22:29

[deleted]

EDITED Jul 8th 2021, 19:25

Basically a quantizer with knobs that lets you set any step values?

Mimetic Digitalis: 16 steps, 4 (0-5v) CV channels.

For morphing cv I use MI Frames: 20 steps (frames), 4 (0-10v) CV channels. Morph using the knob or the cv input.

EDITED Jun 28th 2021, 23:40

Thanks @defragmenteur, I will check out those modules in greater detail! Frames in particular has been baffling to me on prior looks; more soak time with the manual and videos will help.

@Lugia, I'm curious if you would have anything to add to the above discussion?

Thanks all!

EDITED Jul 1st 2021, 21:43

Okay, one more related idea on this end. I have a few shifting inverting scaling utilities like 4MS SISM. Let's say I take a DC output (like Instruo 2f Fader or anything else similar), I mult that 4x, and send the 4x DC signal to SISM's inputs. Then SISM lets me scale and shift those inputs at will, and send downstream to destinations like the timbre controls on my complex OSCs. Then my 2f Fader is the "macro control" and SISM manages all the CV ranges. That type of setup would let me get some "macro" control with the modules I have (without needing a dedicated controller like FSS Makrow or Addac306).

Folks, any other ideas to add to the above threat on control / sequencing / playing of timbre?

@nickgreenberg One way to accomplish this would be through a multi-input switch and a module that outputs static voltage/offsets (for instance, Noise Engineering's Lapsus Os, without any inputs plugged in). You could set each of the Lapsus Os channels to the correct voltages for your 4 sweet spots, route each of them to the switch, and then either trigger the switch using CV or by manually changing the channel.

Something like the Erica Synths Sequential Switch v2 would be nice for this, as you could select channels manually in "Piano" mode, or have it automatically sequence through the channels in one of it's many triggered modes (Forward, Backward, Random, etc.)

Keep in mind, the solution above only really works for sequencing one set of voltages, unless you mult the output of the Switch and further mangle/scale/mix them downstream before inputting them into your sound source's timbre inputs

Shakmat Harlequin's Context can also do these complex presets.
If you just want to do modulator pitch a sequential switch (Doepfer!) and some offsets should be enough, though!

Thanks @merkzy_shoom and @LYFoulidis, those are very helpful additional ideas! The generalized idea of offsets + a switching array is surely something that would work well for my scenario. I'll need to trial that on my rig in the near future. Much appreciated!

EDITED Jul 11th 2021, 00:06

Just seeing this for the first time: https://www.xodes.net/product/pv44

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/xodes-pv44

Looks like 4 sets of 4 voltages, selectable by trigger

If I ran that through 4 lanes of slew then that would be like a 4lane FSS Makrow!?

Seems like a more limited and convoluted Voltage Block to me.

Any multi-lane sequencer should be able to pull this off. The Mimetic Digitalis was mentioned. It advances to the next step based on a trigger input.

Another option is to use a Sequencer that can change what step it's outputting based on an input CV voltage rather than a trigger. Ornament & Crime has a dual sequencer that can respond in this manner (Sequins mode).

@farkas and @Ronin1973, I hear you re: Xodes.PV44. I just saw the PV44 recently and thought it was neat and another option worth considering along these lines. I'm not in any rush to get a PV44 because i) it is pretty big HP wise ii) documentation for it is poor so its still slightly mysterious iii) there do seem to be plenty other usable alternatives.

It's interesting to see how PV44 can appear to be cryptic to some.

The concept is pretty simple though : 4 trigger inputs select between 4 sets (columns) of 4 voltages defined by the knobs/switches. If 2 or more inputs are triggered simultaneously, it will prioritize (4>3>2>1) which set of voltages is sent to the outputs.

It was primarily developed to be used with drum/percussion synthesizers so that multiple parameters could be modified at once, and this is why it responds to triggers, have prioritization, and includes an output which is an OR of the 4 trigger inputs.

It can be used in other contexts, yet it might not be for anyone, as it's more of a companion to a trigger sequencer.

EDITED Dec 4th 2021, 10:23

@XODES thanks for the clarification above. I did not arrive at that same understanding by reviewing the info & videos available for PV44, so your added text helps. In particular, I had been left wondering how the panel controls relate to one another and to various possible input / output signals.

Might I suggest you add to your manual / videos:
-- a panel diagram labeling the controls and discussing their normal interactions
-- a few patch examples clearly illustrating a few of the main use cases, the required patching and settings
-- a basic "intro" video showing the 2 points above. The existing videos were too "busy" for me to make out the unit's basic functions.

I believe that added text / video would make the unit pretty clear to most.

I do think if I had PV44 in my rack I would learn it quickly.

Again, thanks for your input above, I'll keep PV44 in mind for the future!

I also have the FSS Makrow.but havent used it yet.as im abit baffled how i should patch it up.and there really isent any videos about it.

@Broken-Form

outputs to modulation inputs on other modules

adjust attenuverters to set ranges

turn knob (or use input - use attenuator as needed) to change value at output...

imagine the attenuverter for output 1 is set to about 9 o'clock - roughly -0.5

as you move the knob from fully counter clockwise (0) to fully clockwise (1), the value of output 1 will move from 0-> -0.5

etc etc

@Broken-Form

outputs to modulation inputs on other modules

adjust attenuverters to set ranges

turn knob (or use input - use attenuator as needed) to change value at output...

imagine the attenuverter for output 1 is set to about 9 o'clock - roughly -0.5

as you move the knob from fully counter clockwise (0) to fully clockwise (1), the value of output 1 will move from 0-> -0.5

etc etc
-- JimHowell1970

Thanks will try this out today

Would a Voltage Block be good for this, Nick? The range of each slider/step is 0-5v and you can set it to jump or glide between them. With attenuverters & offsets between the Block and your complex oscillator I’d imagine you’d have tight control - not to mention putting it through the SISM. You’ll be in the lab for weeks!