Multi-Engine Oscillator
https://www.behringer.com/product?modelCode=P0E6H
Is this really just a Braids/Plaits knock-off? :|
The world doesn't need another MI clone, but I guess with their manufacturing resources, it's just about racing to the bottom to release the absolute cheapest knock-off/clone of something in hopes of dominating an already flooded market.
God I agree with you, he's about to be at the bottom!!!! What's with the cheap copies, they obviously need to work on something other than that!!!
Even the clones give credit.
I don't see any mentioned of Plaits or MI. Given that the work is derivative of MI Plaits they should acknowledge as such and give credit to Emilie Gillet. The licensing on the GitHub page for MI (https://github.com/pichenettes/eurorack) says it is GPL3.0 in the case of Code (AVR projects) and the MIT license in the case of Code (STM32F projects). My reading of this is that in both cases, the license and copyright has to be published with the derivative work and in the case of the GPL 3.0 the source code of the derived work has to be open-source and provided with it.
If you click the "show more" in the Product Features of the product page, you'll see a url (not even a properly working hyperlink) to the Plaits github repo, but that's it. I bet their lawyers said that was sufficient, but that's disgusting as far as I'm concerned.
If you click the "show more" in the Product Features of the product page, you'll see a url (not even a properly working hyperlink) to the Plaits github repo, but that's it. I bet their lawyers said that was sufficient, but that's disgusting as far as I'm concerned.
-- benirose
The second bullet point under Product Features at the top of the page directly credits "Mutable Instruments Plaits sound engines". Don't be a hypocritical cork sniffer here. This thing isn't even out yet, and has 73 one-star reviews. Yet the Antumbra Plaits clone, which doesn't even try to add any additional firmware, has a 4.52 rating. Absurd. People are so blinded by their Behringer hate that they're ignoring more severe slights against MI by dozens of other manufacturers. But they don't care, because they get a micro Plaits and can continue to say they don't use any Behringer gear. Lol these people don't give a d*mn about open source integrity.
The second bullet point under Product Features at the top of the page directly credits "Mutable Instruments Plaits sound engines".
-- homeslice1479
You are right there is mention of MI in the product features "20 digital oscillators including 15 Mutable Instruments Plaits* engines for infinite sound creation".
Also the license for MI Plaits is the MIT license (see: https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/plaits/open_source/ ), which means that license should be included in the derived work, but source code need not be. Fair enough.
But then you had to say "Don't be a hypocritical cork sniffer here." Now that's original.
Hmmmm...sounds like since Uli's bunch did such a great job with the 2600 that they think it's time for Yet Another Uli Fiasco.
There's a big difference between resurrecting a 50 year old classic that's been out of production for decades, and coming up with a Walmart-priced VCO based on present-day Open Source tech that they only tacitly credit. While, yes, there's small manufacturers doing clones of the Mutable modules, these people aren't operating on the scale of Behringer. Losing credit for several dozen downsized clones is one thing, but losing credit for a module that might sell in the many thousands of units is quite tragic.
Uli should stick to gluing corks to stompboxes. At least with that, he's only really harming himself.
I have nothing against Behringer; another MI clone, just like others clones around.
Plaits plus 4 extra osc plus oscilloscope and in black. If I feel I need it I would get this one over other clones.
And I do own 3 OG MI modules...
Lets face it, if this clone had been made by somebody else no-one would complain.
I, for one, am surprised that anyone still gets surprised / annoyed / outraged by Uli's shenanigans. I'd be only surprised if he came up with something truly original ;)
Peace to ya'll.
I am inspired by birth, death and the events inbetween.
I am always surprised by anti Behringer comments. Didn't Arturia use 7 Mutable algorithms in the MicroFreak? Was there a similar backlash? I can imagine some so called YouTube influencers rubbing their hands in glee with the release of this product so they can also add some anti Behringer comments of their own and watch as the ad revenue rolls in. Capitalism at its finest lol.
Maybe the oscillator display idea came from the MicroFreak.
I'm cool with Behringer to be honest , I think a lot of Eurorack gear is overpriced and cheaper alternatives is always a great option to have and certainly for me they facilitated my passion for Eurorack. If it wasn't for the Behringer Neutron I wouldn't have invested in the smaller boutiques and more well known Eurorack brand names.
I don't think I would buy this as I have an old Braids and Plaits but I could imagine buying it if I was just getting into Eurorack and something like this was £50 cheaper. Also in my opinion the ethics of the smaller boutiques who just ripped off the source code and created new modules with a slightly smaller footprint wasn't really in the spirit of Emile making her/his code open source. What Behringer have done is closer to what Emile imagined I think. It would be good if they released the code for their additional five algorithms.
I think the antisemitism is enough reason to hate B*. If you don’t care about that, their unlicensed Arturia Keystep clone is another one.
MI designs are open source, so they’re free to use them. But my machine is supposed to kill fascists, not to support racists.
I am always surprised by anti Behringer comments.
-- greenfly
Have you considered this might be due to your lack of information rather than the lack of evidence ? Or do you believe all these people calling Uli anti-semitic are doing it for funsies ?
Comments like "sure, they did it wrong, but so did others so it's ok" are a way to encourage mediocrity, in my view not something any intelligent person would want to encourage.
Oh, and I have a feeling your assumption about Eurorack being overpriced is coming from that same place of "I don't know but I'll have an opinion anyway"... There are already threads on the subject at least on ModWiggler, probably here as well, inform yourself.
--- Voltage control all the things ---
I think EG can cope just fine without the usual groups harping on about credit, proper licensing and general good taste or big, bad, tuff posturing about killing people based on statements/philosophy over action (I sincerely have no idea what the last commenters are rambling about, but some sources might help*. Preferably something more credible than social media gossip).
I guarantee that no one else cares anymore. Beyond being a glutton for punishment, the only reasons to potentially feel bad about buying this (or practically anything these days) are the low-level Chinese plant workers and Uyghur children mining rare-earth elements with their bloody, broken hands.
*Edit: Oh, THAT "controversy". I'd completely forgotten about it!
I think EG can cope just fine without the usual groups harping on about credit, proper licensing and general good taste or big, bad, tuff posturing about killing people based on statements/philosophy over action (I sincerely have no idea what the last commenters are rambling about, but some sources might help*. Preferably something more credible than social media gossip)
-- jingram
You ask, we deliver. From a news article about industry lawsuits on Reverb at https://reverb.com/news/the-true-stories-behind-6-famous-gear-lawsuits
"Behringer Gets Taken To Court Several Times Over
Behringer makes no bones about the fact that it clones other company's designs, capitalizing on cheap labor and parts costs in China and Southeast Asia to offer gear at door–busting low prices. Just recently, Behringer announced its clone of the Minimoog Model D at about a tenth of the price of Moog’s own recently announced reproduction.
Behringer has given the same treatment to products by Boss, Tech 21, Electro–Harmonix, Mackie, Line 6, and more. As mentioned in a comprehensive Create Digital Music post about Behringer’s lawsuits from 2009, the company even cloned Apple’s home page.
That Create Digital Music post gives the most comprehensive and digestible rundown of Behringer’s legal troubles out there. But to summarize:
In 1997, Mackie sued Behringer and its US distributor Samson over cloning its mixers. Mackie won the suit that year, but in 1999 a judge ruled that even though Behringer’s circuit boards were plagiarized, circuit board design is not covered by US copyright law. This basically freed Behringer to clone as it wished. When Mackie released its Onyx line a few years later, Behringer released its Xenyx mixers.
Savvy about the circuit board ruling, Roland took Behringer to court in 2005 for copying the look of its Boss pedals, claiming that Behringer was creating brand confusion. Behringer and Roland settled out of court, and the look of Behringer’s cheaper cloned pedals changed quickly. But the settlement didn’t stop Behringer from copying the look of Line 6’s pedals.
In the Gearslutz thread where founder Uli Behringer announced his plans to manufacture his Model D clone, he offered an alternate story about the Roland debacle and also provided some links to information about the Mackie suit (to a Gearslutz post defending Behringer) and a lawsuit with Peavey that Behringer won.
Cloning, though, has been the company’s bread and butter for much of its tenure as a topseller in the gear business.
Behringer tends to offer two defenses of the cloning. In the post linking to information about the Peavey and Mackie suits, Behringer offers several other links to court briefs about other musical instrument companies infringing copyright. Behringer’s defense there seems to be, more or less, that everyone does it, so why shouldn’t Behringer.
Then in another post in that Gearslutz thread, Behringer offers his more common defense, that his company is trying to get cheap gear into the hands of working musicians.
Whether it’s that noble mission or a cold, calculated market play, Behringer is evidently proud to continue the practice.
Now this isn’t to say that Behringer exclusively clones other company’s products and sells them for less. The company’s new Deepmind 12 poly synth is an all original design, and a praised one to boot. Perhaps the success of something like this will nudge the company into relying more heavily on original designs, like Peavey’s evolution in the 1980s. Or maybe it won’t."
Nuff said, I think. And they didn't even mention the flap between Uli and dbx, which is egregious to the point of total comedy.
It's almost like you didn't even see the asterisk, or even anything past the first line space... My goodness! What a lot of nothing! Preaching to the converted, sister!
the funny side is that the Modular scenes seem to don't give a damn..
Who is going to buy this? It's twice as wide as the clones, which are 8HP wide, and has the exact same controls.
Behringer's eurorack modules so far have been disappointing to me. They are cheaper, ok, but they are too bulky for the features they offer. I'd rather pay 80 Euro more to get a thinner module.
And its 125 € new. Also MI stopped production of all their modules.
I have one and its an awesome modulateable LFO, thinking about selling part of my complex LFO Collection that i have spent about 2 K so far because this is way cooler than Wogglebug, TINRS Wobbler, Thorn VCLFO and 5 other LFOs i have in my rack.
Can i put the braids reloaded update on the original plaits or plaits clones?
