Advice on newbie techno rack

Hi all, after spending the past few years admiring modular from distance, I feel like its time to take the plunge with my own. Before I pull the trigger on a few modules to start myself off (already have the case, the intellijel one) I'd like some advice please if this is a sensible rack set up and if I need to add more modules to eke out the most functionality from a small space?

Idea here is a techno focused drum machine plus one monosynth (which doubles up as a percussion generator). I'm interested in drones and textures as well, so hoping to use the mimeophon to get some pads going.

I'm concerned I dont have enough modulation sources and VCAs, however im thinking as the monosynth will be the main thing to modulate should be ok? I'm also worried about having zadar as my main envelope generator, and if that's limiting?

I also wonder if i need a logic module in there, but dont know if that will be useful for this setup

i've gone for contour 1 + compare 2 instead of Maths. Would like to add another contour and select further down the line. However i'm ondering if these replacements will be ok or should i rejig the whole set up.

Thanks! Excited to start my journey

Edit: sequencing with octatrack via midi

EDITED Jul 19th 2023, 08:38

I guess you know this reference video...

great link there @Sweelinck!

Hi all, after spending the past few years admiring modular from distance, I feel like its time to take the plunge with my own. Before I pull the trigger on a few modules to start myself off (already have the case, the intellijel one) I'd like some advice please if this is a sensible rack set up and if I need to add more modules to eke out the most functionality from a small space?

what does your extensive reaseach tell you? - especially relating to newbie racks and particularly drum oriented modular...

general advice is don't do drums in modular... it's very expensive and way more complicated than an external drum machine!

& how are you intending to sequence the drums? if just midi (using the planned midi->cv module) and the clock divider they'll potentially be very boring!

Idea here is a techno focused drum machine plus one monosynth (which doubles up as a percussion generator). I'm interested in drones and textures as well, so hoping to use the mimeophon to get some pads going.

hmmm... maybe a stereo filter for the morphagene?

I'm concerned I dont have enough modulation sources and VCAs, however im thinking as the monosynth will be the main thing to modulate should be ok? I'm also worried about having zadar as my main envelope generator, and if that's limiting?

don't you want to modulate your drums too, stop them being static and boring? and what about the fx, do they not deserve at least some modulation - and attenuation for that modulation - full range modulation often sounds crap - whereas a tiny bit can go a long way!!!

the vca you've specified is linear so best suited for modulation and not audio - whilst this is not necessarily a bad thing, and can be worked around using exponential envelope generators - do the envelope/function generators supply enough in the way of exponential envelopes to support this in the way that you want! zadar is a great envelope generator, but it's not necessarily as immediate as a lot of others...

generally if you don't think you have enough of something - then you probably don't...

I also wonder if i need a logic module in there, but dont know if that will be useful for this setup

compare2 is a logic module!!! these are very useful for rhythmic 'programming' - I'd want a bernoulli gate (probabalistic dropping/switching of gates/triggers), a burst generator, a sequential switch and an or combiner too - at the very least to help create interesting rhythms - as well as to improve other patchiung possibilities

i've gone for contour 1 + compare 2 instead of Maths. Would like to add another contour and select further down the line. However i'm ondering if these replacements will be ok or should i rejig the whole set up.

Maths is a great module if you are interested in 'modular synthesis' - as opposed to 'synthesis with modules' - which your rack plan as is points towards - it is way more than the sum of it's parts - see the 'maths illustrated supplement' for more details on patch programming - but I'd always recommend getting at least some of the component parts of maths as well as maths - utilities are probably the most important key to patching in modular synthesis - as they exponentlially add to patching possibilities! you say you've replaced Maths with contour1 and compare2, but where are the attenuverters and offsets

have you thought seriously about mixing? I wouldn't just want 2 stereo mixers for mixing drums, a monophonic voice and a morphagene plus fx - how are you going to pan your mono sound sources in the stereo field? how are you going to sub-mix drums before sending to effects?

and whilst I applaud the idea of a matrix mixer... it's the shiniest, most complicated and least usable example I can think of... just get a basic one so that you can learn how to use one - and not spend ages searching for the dongles, you've inevitably dropped on the floor... great module in theory... but I'm not convinced of the practicality of it, at all! definitely not a beginner module

see my signature for some hints on improving versatility whilst reducing expense!

A couple things: I second Jim's recommendation against the Instruo matrix mixer. Would recommend something like the Doepfer one at first, though it is much larger.
Also, you have way too many compressors here. MSCL, Messor, and Ghost? I imagine you want sidechain functionality which can be done in a modular fashion with an envelope follower/inverted envelope and VCA. If you want "character" compression, maybe find a single one that appeals to you most. For "character," I've really been enjoying the SSF Vortices mixer. It's subtle but awesome, but you can do feedback patching to get even more grit and character. I handle more transparent compression outside the rack.
Good luck and have fun!

I guess you know this reference video...

-- Sweelinck

Thanks! I've seen his rack he was referring to on here and did pinch a few of his ideas. Good video though, didnt realise this exsisted

@JimHowell1970

Thanks so much for taking the time out to reply and for your suggestions. A lot to unpack there- I'll rejig and come back.

@farkas

Thanks as well! I'm aware of the invert envelope trick for VCA. Yes three compressors is excessive- the thinking behind was to use Ghost for rumble kicks and then messor to glue drums together then MSCL to glue the mix together. Thinking about it, i could replace Messor with one of Jim's suggestions as i'm just being greedy lol

great advice from @farkas, too!!!

re compressors: to a large extent if you arrange and mix things properly you may find you don't need them - apart from maybe side-chaining for kick - but even then use a vca - it's more versatile & modular - just make sure you get the right vca (like a veils clone) that actually amplifies as well as attenuates

arrangement and filtering can go a long way though - low pass filter the kick with the resonance where you want the fundamental to sit - make sure the bass line is a higher frequency than the kick and/or high pass filter the bass so they're not eating up the same frequency space... a much more modular and musical approach approach!

I also think that ghost is perhaps overkill (& I rarely use that word for modular) for just processing a mono kick and is large and stereo.... possibly this is better for end of chain fx.. or replacing for something else...

Right then, thanks again @JimHowell1970 and @farkas for all your wonderful advice. I've rejigged and made a few changes below.

• Removed oscillator/optamix to make space for changes. These can come later
• Reverted to using Maths. At the very least it'll help me learn modular concepts, plus further down the line, if I find i'm consistently not getting the most out of it THEN I can start thinking of alternatives instead of relying on reddit
• Add a Quadrax for linear/exponential envelopes plus extra lfos if i need to and also burst duties. Feel less unsure of the amount of modulators now
• Changed to a more traditional matrix mixer, which is actually less hp than the lion. Small knobs a concern, but at the very least i can learn on it
• Removed ghost- initially wanted to it for extra duties outside of kick when im not using, but replacing it has meant I can squeeze in more modules
• Added a 2hp simple panning thing which i'm planning to autopan using logic, more below...
• Added an extra mixer to the drum channel
• Added another attenuator
• Added an fxaid for filtering/reverb followong mimeophon
• Spruced up the logic by adding an eas, and a 1u flip module
• Replaced 1u ornament and crime with Disting for quantising/plus additional support modules
• Added a vca and cheapo low pass gate in the 1u section
• Removed all compressors as these can come later

Feels like i'm getting somewhere, what do you guys think?

Alright, here's what I would do based upon your initial guidance of a techno focused drum machine with a mono voice, and my own experience. Above all, you will need to just decide on a couple modules at first and figure out what you are really missing, then go from there. I'm just a dude on the internet, so it's ultimately your decision. These are just some ideas to think about.
First, Three Sisters is not exactly unobtanium, but in my opinion it is overpriced due to scarcity. In its place, I would recommnd the FSS Timbral Sculptor as a multimode filter that includes a wavefolder. It's awesome. Check out DivKid's demo video.
Second, I am not a fan of Maths or Disting. Sold both and never looked back, but they are good for learning purposes. I've never subscribed to Jim's "modular synthesis vs. synthesis with modules" argument regarding Maths. The Moog System 55 and Roland System 700 didn't have Maths... Was that not modular synthesis? Anyway, Quadrax with the QX expander should serve your function generator and logic needs. Add Pam's Pro Workout for all sorts of clocked, random, and quantized waves, and that's a pretty powerful combo. Pam's is the brain that locks everything together. You can get weird swing and off-time gates with the Quadrax/QX combo, but most techno is going to require a pretty tight groove.
I mentioned Vortices in my previous comment. This will give you mono and stereo channels, CV control over mixing (something you were missing in your previous iterations), and clickless muting of channels if you track down the V-Mutes expander. You will want channel muting if you are making techno.
Plaits is so versatile. For a small rack, I think you will find it incredibly valuable. It can serve as a mono synth voice, chord generator, percussion, noise, jack of all trades. Add that to BIA and a good kick drum, and you are in business.
I would ditch the Orion phaser. I think there are better uses of that space, and both Disting and the FX Aid XL have phaser algorithms if you think you'll be doing a lot of phasing (the FSS Timbral Sculptor also does a convincing phaser, btw).
Some of the stuff you chose might be a good purchase once your rack expands beyond 208hp (and, oh yes, it will expand beyond 208hp), like the Compare 2 and compressors. As it is now, you want to get the most out of your rack without sacrificing playability. All of those little 2hp and 4hp modules that you are trying to squeeze in will be a source of frustration. You won't be able to get your hands in between the mess of cables.
Finally, you still have 14hp to play with and I saved you $1100.

Have fun and good luck!

I've never subscribed to Jim's "modular synthesis vs. synthesis with modules" argument regarding Maths. The Moog System 55 and Roland System 700 didn't have Maths... Was that not modular synthesis?

-- farkas

it's not really got anything to do with maths - although maths is a good example of a few fundamental building blocks under a single panel that can be patched to do more than the individual building blocks can - it's got to do with fundamental building blocks of synthesis as modules rather than big shiny expensive synth modules that do all these things for you without any need for understanding of what's going on beneath the panel... so moog system 55 and roland system 700 - collections of fundamental building blocks of synthesis that need to be patched together to get something out of them - definitely fall in the 'modular synthesis' camp... whereas a rack that consists of only say a couple of semi modulars, a mixer and an effects module - is definitely in the 'synthesis with modules' camp...

vc cross-faders and vc panners - which I don't use often - are a good example - they can both be patched easily using a couple of channels of a cascading vca, an lfo and a few basic utility modules... buying vc cross-faders and panners (is more 'synthesis with modules' whereas patching them up when you need them is more 'modular synthesis'

neither is right or wrong, just different, & I suspect a lot, if not most, of us fall somewhere in the middle - I definitely do - in that I have both modules that are fundamental building blocks of synthesis and a few 'voice modules' - deckard's voice for example - where I don't have to patch anything into it, other than pitch and gate because someone else designed the voice for me - I don't have a complex oscillator - but I can patch multiple different ones from various vcos and utilities etc etc

the argument for maths is more: it's a collection of fundamental building blocks under a single panel, which in themselves are useful to have and it has a lot of educational material - videos and pdfs (particularly the 'maths illustrated supplement') - that when used properly (thinking about what, why, how and not just patching blindly) can give the user an introduction to patch-programming, which when taken forwards and applied across the modular as a whole can massively benefit their patching in general

EDITED Jul 20th 2023, 13:30

Alright, here's what I would do based upon your initial guidance of a techno focused drum machine with a mono voice, and my own experience. Above all, you will need to just decide on a couple modules at first and figure out what you are really missing, then go from there. I'm just a dude on the internet, so it's ultimately your decision. These are just some ideas to think about.
First, Three Sisters is not exactly unobtanium, but in my opinion it is overpriced due to scarcity. In its place, I would recommnd the FSS Timbral Sculptor as a multimode filter that includes a wavefolder. It's awesome. Check out DivKid's demo video.
Second, I am not a fan of Maths or Disting. Sold both and never looked back, but they are good for learning purposes. I've never subscribed to Jim's "modular synthesis vs. synthesis with modules" argument regarding Maths. The Moog System 55 and Roland System 700 didn't have Maths... Was that not modular synthesis? Anyway, Quadrax with the QX expander should serve your function generator and logic needs. Add Pam's Pro Workout for all sorts of clocked, random, and quantized waves, and that's a pretty powerful combo. Pam's is the brain that locks everything together. You can get weird swing and off-time gates with the Quadrax/QX combo, but most techno is going to require a pretty tight groove.
I mentioned Vortices in my previous comment. This will give you mono and stereo channels, CV control over mixing (something you were missing in your previous iterations), and clickless muting of channels if you track down the V-Mutes expander. You will want channel muting if you are making techno.
Plaits is so versatile. For a small rack, I think you will find it incredibly valuable. It can serve as a mono synth voice, chord generator, percussion, noise, jack of all trades. Add that to BIA and a good kick drum, and you are in business.
I would ditch the Orion phaser. I think there are better uses of that space, and both Disting and the FX Aid XL have phaser algorithms if you think you'll be doing a lot of phasing (the FSS Timbral Sculptor also does a convincing phaser, btw).
Some of the stuff you chose might be a good purchase once your rack expands beyond 208hp (and, oh yes, it will expand beyond 208hp), like the Compare 2 and compressors. As it is now, you want to get the most out of your rack without sacrificing playability. All of those little 2hp and 4hp modules that you are trying to squeeze in will be a source of frustration. You won't be able to get your hands in between the mess of cables.
Finally, you still have 14hp to play with and I saved you $1100.

Have fun and good luck!
-- farkas

Excellent advice in general from @farkas once again...

I'd upgrade the fx aid xl to a pro... I have both and the ability to actualy see what you are doing on the pro (instead of having to memorise which algo is where or refer to a paper or pdf cheat sheet constantly) is priceless... I'm going to set mine up so that the 1st 32 algos in my pro are the same as the 32 algos in my xl, so I have an in rack cheat sheet... plus it has a very, very basic single channel scope built in

Fantastic advice and arguments here. Wish I knew more to contribute, but i'm sure that knowledge will come! I've always loved hardware synths but the modular world is an entirely different beast, and hey i'm in the market for a new hobby. For me, having the versatility to patch modules in unexpected ways to create something is the allure of modular

Thanks so much again guys, really appreciate the feedback. Yep I fell into the classic camp of wanting to cram as much stuff in, and even with my tiny hands I can definitely see fruststion arising with the wirey mess to come. Love all the suggestions and i'm in the process of modifying @farkas plan to something tuned to my workflow, eg still would like a dedicated delay so will probably chuck that in. Thanks for taking the time out to put something together, completely unexpected and a lovely thing to do. Obviously this plan will change as my needs grow and i start experimenting but in this for long haul

still would like a dedicated delay so will probably chuck that in.
-- Delicatessen

Remember that you can flash the Ruina Versio to several different delay modules, plus you have Mimeophon and the FX Aid and Disting, which both have several great delays. I still think you might be trying to double (or triple) up on too many functions for the space you have available to start. Again, it's your synth. I just know what did and didn't work for me. I made a lot of the noob mistakes.
Hope you have fun building your synth!

still would like a dedicated delay so will probably chuck that in.
-- Delicatessen

Remember that you can flash the Ruina Versio to several different delay modules, plus you have Mimeophon and the FX Aid and Disting, which both have several great delays. I still think you might be trying to double (or triple) up on too many functions for the space you have available to start. Again, it's your synth. I just know what did and didn't work for me. I made a lot of the noob mistakes.
Hope you have fun building your synth!

-- farkas

I used the tape delay in disting for ages - and still do, even though I've also got a magneto now - & 2 fx aids ... it's very good for what it is...

I think we all make newb mistakes... but asking questions etc on here and/or other forums can reduce and mitigate them quite a bit...

Also starting slowly (for example getting just the melodic voice to start) and learning how to patch that etc before starting on the percussion side may help...

as @farkas said... hope you have fun building (and playing) your synth!

I used the tape delay in disting for ages - and still do, even though I've also got a magneto now - & 2 fx aids ... it's very good for what it is...

-- JimHowell1970

For sure. The tape delay, tuner, and quantizer were about the only algorithms I was using before I sold Disting. Sounds really good.

I have 100+ improvised techno jams that essentially documented my modular journey. Modular is very individualistic, but maybe I can makes some recommendations that would save you some time and money. I have also circulated over $100,000 of modules over the last 3-4 years, I've had everything from a full set of Mannequins, QMMF-4...a bunch of stuff, more modules than anyone could ever want or need. The goal of my rig was to be able to walk up to it and go.

These are my favs from the whole thing:
Mixer: WMD performance mixer (V2 is coming out by the end of the year and it blows V1 outta the water it's a gamechanger)
Bass drum: Modbase09mkii into Fold6. I also like Bass Drum 2 alot.
Hats: The best hat will be the AMMT Hi hat no contest. Patching Panda Hatz v2 was great for analog hat. I used Pico Drums for hat samples.
Snare: I preferred an analog 808 and used the Noisy Fruit Lab 808 snare
Clap: Erica Clap, could get to a the more minimal side with an envelope/vca
Ride: Started with Erica Cymbals, but accomplished the same with Pico Drums.
Toms: Erica Toms or Pico Drums cause all of the toms modules are huge.
Lead Voice: Piston Honda MKIII, Verbos Complex OSC. Erica Bassline for 303.
Sub Bass: SY0.5
Delay: Sarajewo (this is one of my fav modules all time, sounds incredible)
Reverb: FX Aid, Desmodus Versio
Master bus: TriTone for EQ+ Saturation, Overseer/SCLPL for DJ filter, MSCL master bus compression.
Other: Natural Gate, Sinc Bucina, Kermit MKIII.
Pitch Sequencer: Ornament and Crime with Logarythm branch of Hemipshere Suite running TB3P0 (random instant 303 sequences). I would've been interested to check out the Precision Disruptor, but didn't get a chance. This would likely be better than the TB3P0, but of course is huge.
Drum sequencer: Metron, Varigate 4 or 8, Erica Drum Sequencer
Master clock: Pam's Pro

I went from a 104 7u to 18U of Doepfer Monster cases, and have used as little as 42hp 4u to accomplish the same things, drums, voices, mastering and all. It's all in the playlist. This is all Detroit/Acid techno kinda vibes sometimes minimal. My approach was to do it as fast as possible to jam every day. I think the modules you get will depend on your goals. Do you want a noodle box for sounds or do you want to smash out beats? I've heard a lot of modulat techno setups, but I always chased a heavy sound...it had to be fat. The most fun I had was exploiting modules to their max like Pamela's Pro Workout and Kermit. I could sequence drums AND synth voices with Pam's. Did you know there's a way to turn Pam's into a Turing Machine? Stuff like that...The biggest mistake was buying a new module to solve a new problem, when I in fact had solutions already in my setup.

It's very individualistic, but the only way to truly know is to have a module in your case and patch it up. There's no reason to buy all of the stuff at once either. I listen back and I preferred my sound back when it was stripped down vs the monster setup. You said you have Octatrack already, try and use that for drums to start with and then just get a Pam's and build up a synth voice to your liking and see how that goes and expand from there. That was the best part! Hope this helps best of luck!

EDITED Jul 21st 2023, 03:46

@Delicatessen
More modestly, and to come back to a previously mentioned topic, try first the delays included in the Disting mk4. I join @JimHowell1970 and @farkas to tell you that you won’t be disappointed.

The 4hp Disting interface is terrible. Get the bigger one so you atleast dont have to pull out the manual every time you wanna change it up.

@farkas @JimHowell1970 @sweelinck yeah for sure getting this piecemeal is the way to go! I'll see how I get on with with whats there at the moment. Disting, the timberal sculptor and a eurorack external input module sounds like a good starting point for kick processing. Pams to follow shortly. I can start with loading samples in the Octatrack as per @obscuremachines (thanks by the way! some cool modules/great advice there) suggestion. I think you're right ahout disting ex - the extra power and slot you get seems like a no brainer