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I would have to politely disagree here as far as size of case goes cause you can achieve this sound with a relatively small setup
-- obscuremachines

disagreement is good!!!

you are trying to do too much in too small a case...

polyphony is extremely expensive in modular, as each voice requires at least one vco and each vco requires at least one vca, a vcf and an envelope generator and thats before we start on modulation - and quite possibly each of the vcos requires a simple mixer to mix waveforms - and that is just for the simplest, most boring subtractive synth voice... and then you need a mixer to mix the voices together... and whilst jumbe henge is great for placing voices in a stereo field and overall volume, you still need a way of balancing the volume of individual voices... I see you have quadratt, but you'll need attenuators/attenuverters for modulation too!!!

voice leading requires at least one sequencer channel per voice - unless you only want to be able to play in unison or in fixed intervals

you have a quad quantizer, but no melodic sequencer to feed it - so how are you intending to sequence the voices in your rack? if the answer is I don't know, but I'd like to control the notes - then get a sequencer that's big enough to control those voices - something like a erica black sequencer, or the new hermod+, both of which include quantisers, as do almost all sequencers in the "battleship sequencer" category

this is why 90% of the time as soon as polyphony is mentioned by a newbie the 1st reply is "just get a polysynth" it will save you money... seriously it may be worth your while saving a bit more and getting a moog one - it's already patched for you and comes with both a sequencer and a keyboard... and at under £10k for 16 voices, it's a bargin!!!

you have 4 vcos and a sampler... but only a single vcf... so immediately you are out of polyphonic territory and into paraphonic... for polyphony, as mentioned above, you need a vcf per voice - on top of this there is not enough mixing to reduce the 4 channels of vcos to a stereo signal before sending to the vcf... you may be envisioning the 2 shakmat vcos and the waveshaper as a single complex oscillator?

even so the filter is stereo, but the vcos are mono, so you really need a way of placing the voices in the stereo field before sending to the filter, unless you are envisioning using the filter in dual mode - in which case I would strongly suggest 2 separte filters as they will be easier to use in the long run

normally it is suggested to limit to 1 - 1.5 voices per row based upon the need for support modules to get the voices to do anything interesting

advice:

take a look at my signature and seriouly contemplate it for a while... then apply what you have learnt to the following steps...

work out how many voices you really want...
work out what you need for sequencing and mixing those voices...
work out what you need for modulation - probably quite a lot - but you can use copies to each voice - and add in a matrix mixer, which is really useful for combining simple modulation sources to derive related more complex modulation
work out what you need for each voice - vcas, vcos (1 or 2 or 3 per voice), vcfs, envelopes etc - if you want 4 voice polyphony with 2 oscillators per voice then it might be worth looking at quad or octal polyphonic vcos (doepfer or wavefonix)

expect to take up at least double the case space for 4 voices and their related support modules - especially if you want a ergonomic synth... a lot of newbies are unaware how small eurorack actually is and are surprised once they get their 1st modules: 1hp = 1/5", 1u = 1.75" - think how big your fingers are in relation to that and how patch cables impede the use of your fingers when reaching for knobs, be aware that trimmers (the small black knobs) are much less precise than bigger knobs...

then buy the absolute minimum thfrom this list of modules that you need to make a single voice, play it, modulate it and listen to it before continuing, learn these inside and out and refine (you may hate the vcf for example) before buying another voice as and when...

and do all this before considering the "lots of trigger action", whatever that means... or go for that first...

just don't do it all at once!! you will be overwhelmed and spend a lot of time and money replacing things...

hope this helps and good luck! any questions etc feel free to ask...

I've been wanting to get into eurorack for a very long time. I own four semimodular synthesizers, a beatstep pro and sq1, and even bought a Behringer CP1 A months a go because i found it very cheap on eBay which I havent touched at all.

cheap is not often associated with good... the b-company power supply is almost definitely not powerful enough to power the 6u 104hp case you envisage - just checked and you've got 2 - might work... remember the semis will want power and you need to leave at least 25-30% headroom on each rail

My goal:
I want this rack to be focused only one thing, and thats glitchy percusive/drum sounds. I'm not interested in creating a basic 'kick snare hat' sort of drum machine since I already have a Digitakt and RD9 for more conventional drum sounds. What I really want is to be able to explore sound design but in a rythmic way, both in terms of sequencing and sound modulation.

so in my mind that would be oscillators, vcas, envelopes, lfos, filters and maybe an effect module or 2

Influences:
I will list some of the artists that inspire me in order to give a clearer understanding of the sound I'm trying to achieve: Aphex Twin, Floating Points, Jean Jelinek, uZiq, Squarepusher, Venetian Snares, etc...

Context:
I already have a Neutron and DFAM, also I will be using my Beatstep pro as the main sequencer (which has a probability function and can kind of work as a basic 'generative' sequencer). I want to start with a 6U 104hp case in which I want to put both Neutron and DFAM and I'll just remoove them as I get more modules.

The rack I've planned:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2155174.jpg

I would have helped here and posted a link to the url of your actual rack... but I couldn't be bothered to sift through 8 racks to find the right one... jpgs are shite...

Questions:
- I want to bring effects in and out at random times. Would Pamelas New Workout combined with Twiigs allow me to send random clocked gates to the mix inputs of the effects I've put in the rack?

I'd tend towards Pams Pro Workout as this will probably allow you to do this in a single module - and use envelopes not gates

• One of the most important effects I wan to have is a beatrepeat which would allow me to modulate the lenght of the repeats triggered randomly at clocked intervals. Would Databender be able to do that? Are there any better alternatives?

worth looking at: clouds clone with the kammerl beat repeat firmware... you'll probably want attenuators for modulation

• I have not included any VCAs, envelopes or utility modules, this is becuase the three voices I have in the rack already have built in VCAs and envelopes, plus the Neutron has two attenuators, slew limiter and a basic sample and hold. Am I missing something important here? This is the first time I build a eurorack synthesizer and I'm worried that I might not even know what I dont know.

are the vcas, envelopes and other fundamentally important utilities patchable and still usable in the semis? I doubt it... think again these are all fundamental sound design building blocks... you probably want a lot more of them, not less

• Is it absolutely necessary to have an output module? I've seen a lot of people on youtube mixing eurorack signals with outboard mixers and not getting a lot of noise. My idea is to mix all the voices with the STMX module, then send the output into Databender as a final effect and then from Databender straight into my Mackie CR-1604 mixer. Would I be ok doing that?

it is not necessary to have an output module... but it really depends on whether or not whatever you are sending it to can cope with modular levels without clipping

s0, it will probably work.. but as @ferranadsr said I wouldn't want to go straight into an outboard mixer with the output of an effects module - a more fully featured mixer with a send/returmn facility would be a better idea...

I have watched all of Grant Boss's videos on youtube a million times, and pretty much I want to be able to do what he does but in a waaaaaaaay smaller case.

this is probably unrealistic... you may be able to achieve a small subset of what he does, but generally people have large cases for a reason... one of which is being able to run multiple voices and effects chains at once - which you won't really be able to do in a small case

hey jim, thanks for your comment.

i was thinking a lot if i should keep the moogs in there cases, cause than i could just build a small rack which saves money at the end. but on the other hand if everything is placed in one bigger case it would be easier to patch i guess.

you just need some longer cables...

I've got 8 cases and I have no issues patching between them

i thought i have enough utility modules.

yeah... it's similar to the 'you can never have too many vcas' meme... now replace 'vcas' with 'utilities' and it becomes more accurate!

sound source: would be the moog oscillators than

the moogs are more voices - basically they are mono-synths - as are to a large extent plaits and rings (although rings can also be a sound modifier), you don't really have any traditional stand alone oscillators in here

sound modifieres: what would be apart from a filter?

yeah filters (which the semis also have built in don't they?), but also lpg, wavefolders, and other effects in general - good idea with the sbg (handy one that if your pedals have expression inputs) - that way you can experiment with where you place things like delay and reverb in the chain... reverb into filter for example

modulation sources: whats missing, i have lfo, envelope follower and generartor

it's not necessarily what's missing... more do you have enough?

utility - what is missing? i have vca, attenuators, slew, offset

again, not necessarily anything missing - I'd at least add some logic and some simple mixers (both ac and dc-coupled)

the samara will get used up very quickly and maths is best when patch-programmed which often takes up the bulit in utilities - see the 'maths illustrated supplement' available to download online

attenuators and attenuverters get used up quickly too - lots of modules don't include them - and 10v peak to peak is often too much modulation - less is often more...

a stand alone clock divider is also a great idea - send it audio - the /2 will output a square wave 1 octave lower than the original, the /4 will output a square wave 2 octaves lower

sequential (and non-sequential) switches - switch between inputs or ouputs based upon a clock or manually...

what would be an example on how to use a matrix mixer. i don't understand what would be the benefit of using one.

OK - a couple of examples

patch in copies of 4 modulation sources - mix them together and now you have 4 different, but related modulation signals...

patch in an audio source - and out to an effect - and the effect back in - mix the dry signal and the effect back into the output to the effect... suddenly you have controlled feedback... plus a dry and wet output or a single output with control over the wet and dry mix - you could also patch it so that there's a filter in the feedback loop - useful for delays if they don't have feedback loops themselves

too many voices... not enough utility modules...

take a look at my signature and spend some time thinking about the contents in relation to this rack...

personally I'd keep the moogs in their own cases rather than pay twice to house and power them...

scales seems a bit unnecessary - pams can be used as a quantizer if needed

the mults could be replaced with either stackcables or headphone splitters

plaits has a built in lpg

I'd want a matrix mixer - doepfer for example - useful for making complex modulation etc

Thanks! I missed your mention of Veils, but this is great. I decided to ditch the ES digital ins/outs for now.

NP

I've got a single input module for line or Guitar w bonus env and gate and veils as back up for extra line inputs and VCA duties.

"extra vca duties" are almost always needed... & not just for audio!!!

Got rid of Pam, as the outboard gear I have can seq absolute trigs/CV and the Pachenko/Marbles will add a lot of happy "accidents". Because of that I also removed the 0ch LFOs and the Instru logic, I kind of wanted the logic but it was quite expensive and the Disting has one, albeit not as good.

you'd be surprised - often the algos on disting are really quite good... especially when you take into account the actual cost of the disting algo compared to an instruo module

An extra cascading attenuverter/mult/mixer, and having another cascading VCA on hand to also hopefully attenuate signals to line level if I want some more indvidual outs other than the two stereo line outs.

Now just trying to decide if I should swap the HN 3xMIA for a Doepher A138sv in case I want some panning, though it's not VC...

neither is the 3MIA... but I'd keep the 3MIA and work out how to patch auto-panning with an LFO, an inverted and offset copy of the LFO and veils...

intellijel...

pulp logic were 1st, but not a lot of other companies produced tiles for the format, whereas once intellijel introduced their format, lots of other manufacturers started designing modules for this format... i suspect it's down to intellijel marketing their cases, by giving them to youtube/instagram influencers, as much as anything else

Can’t see th Mantis cases available anywhere in Australia yet)

they tend to go in and out of stock quite a bit - like everything in eurorack they're made in batches and when they sell out it can be a while before another batch gets built and shipped

I may be a bit confused with the difference between VCAs and attenuverters, if both have CV inputs, aren’t they the same - only attenutervers are bipolar?

VCAs are generally known as voltage controlled amplifiers, although a majority have a maximum amplification of 1 and are more correctly voltage controlled attenuators (which isn't necessarily a bad thing - as often that's all that is needed)

unless a specific attenuverter is described as voltage controlled, it won't be.. it'll be manual - the MIAs and the SAM are both manual

the (now discontinued) mutable blinds is an example of a VC Attenuverter... doepfer also make 1 - they are better used for modulation than for audio as they have a tendency not to close fully

Yes, you’re right the motu does have DC-Coupled outs, perhaps I could get away with ditching the ES-3. However, I’m also thinking about send audio through these outputs, would I need dedicated modules to boost the motu outputs to modular level? If so, it may end up costing the same as the ES-3.

which is why I was suggesting a mutable veils clone... as they have 20dB+ gain on each channel

To be honest, I wasn’t thinking about CV at all but moreso processing audio from Ableton through the case. And processing outboard gear via Motu to the case…
Maybe I should instead add another 2xSAM - these can apparently be configured to be a line-modular boost via jumpers on the back.

if that's the case then not a bad idea

So, this is my updated case, not sure if you can see the modules to the side, but my most recent omissions are the 100 Grit, swapped for the Steady State Gate, removed Worng Acronym (I really wanted this but can’t justify the price for an OSC), and took out the FX Aid, in the hope that Monsoon (Clouds) can cover reverb duties, and any time based FX not covered by Clouds, Prism or Crush Delay I could hopefully get out of Disting EX.

However - I think something/s else needs to go.

I would just buy less to start with - a sound source, a modulation source (I'd go for Maths - but don't expect to find a Black & Gold one - they're only available as part of the shared system - and if they do turn up for sale used they often cost double a normal maths), a sound modifier, you've already got a way to play in the keystep pro etc, a quad cascading vca - which can be used as a mono output for now and a few utilities - a simple dc-coupled mixer, a mult, a 3*MIA or similar and then add modules when you've learnt those modules inside out and as you find you need things...

Wondering people’s opinions of what is more valuable out of Pachinko (Marbles) and Pam’s Pro workout, and also if you think I need the 0chd?

both are useful... I have both a PNW and Marbles - never used PNW for looping random quantised pitch though - as I have Marbles for that...

Seems like I have a lot of LFO modulation?

not really - just count up the number of modulation inputs on the other modules...

Considering that - I have outside gear that can seq trigs/CV, albeit limited with minimal Euclid/random functions - such as: Keystep Pro, MicroFreak, DFAM, Neutron via midi input and a soon to be modded Roland MC202 with new Tubbutec seq, even the Roland TR8S can switch it’s individual outs to trigs.

all more or less useful - depending on your workflow...

Also, what specific utilities you would add to this?

I guess I need a mult, mutes/a-b switch? Anything else? Maybe a S&H?

mult probably - a passive (or stackcables or headphone splitters) to start - a buffered one if you need it - I find Maths benefits from a buffer when connecting it's outs to some modules

mutes - not necessarily, unless you feel you need them...

a-b switch - I've always liked sequential switches myself - doepfer does a decent inexpensive bi-directional one

Also - I’ve got the 3xMIA there to double as extra VCAs/mixer - can these also be used to reduce voltage down to line level? - for example plugging into an external sampler/looper
EDIT - OK, as I was typing that I realised the answer is likely no.

kind of but probably not very precise - 3*MIA isn't a VCA though - no VC!

I'd say too many voices and not enough utilities, but I almost always say that...

There's some Marbles clones like Pachinko that I like.

there are full size clones too - you say you have big hands... go for a full size clone!!!

you'll almost definitely want some envelope generators and 'regular' lfos too...

the pico trio:
I think the layout of my Neutron strikes a good balance, it has lots of knobs but they're usable and there's actual space around them.

no idea never seen one in the flesh

if you go for the mantis & you should then you can get a bigger lpg... an optomix for example... which have more controls and better ergonomics (see below) and seem to be available again... and I'd also look to add a second vco (possibly another ona) and a better submixer(s) with controls for - possibly something modeled after the moog cp3 - adds a nice bit of grit when driven - AISynthesis Hamonic Mixer for example - I'm considering adding another 1 or 2 analog oscillators and will want to add 2 or 3 of these Harmonix mixers when I do...

The Mantis was a great recommendation, will probably go with that. The Harmonic Mixer also sounds interesting.

yeah... a Mantis was my second case - I often wonder, if I'd been able to buy a mantis 1st if I'd have been able to stick to it - I needed the space to add maths! which is an excellent module btw - particularly because it has so much educational documentation - both in videos and pdf form ('Maths Illustrated Supplement' - download it and read through it even if you don't buy one!!)

As for LPGs and stuff, what's your take on the Doepfner modules? They have a quad-VCA and a dual-LPG/VCA for example (A-101-2 and A-130-2, both have a nice layout too.)

for me the best vca has always been Veils - I have 3 of the originals... it's possible to buy clones of the mk2 version which adds features... I have a doepfer lpg - but it's the single channel 8hp one - I like it!

ok looking a bit better... comments on the last revision only...

MISO is a great addition but primarily as an attenuverter (scale/invert) and offset (both really useful) but mixing on that module to me is an after thought - as you will probably be using the other functions more often for modulation...

are you intending on using the peaks clone for modulation?

what are your intentions for o&c - I find a lot of multi-purpose modules get used for one purpose a lot of the time... if you are intending this as a modulation source I would personally go for a better modulation source - if you are intending on using it for modulation (as well as the peaks) then you might want to consolidate and get a dedicated quad modulation source instead - batumi for example...

the pico trio:

I had a pico seq... to sequence chord progression changes on my sinfonion - hated it... tiny and awkward to use (especially the reset) I wouldn't really recommend any module under 4hp... especially not next to each other unless jacks only or mostly set and forget...

do you really need an output module?? I've never needed one in 7 years... I started with a small in rack panning mixer that had a headphone output built in, then went straight into an external mixer (small yamaha) that was fine with modular levels as a lot of newer mixers are and now use a tesseract tex-mix mixer, which has headphones built in and when I use speakers send the master of that to the yamaha...

I'd seriously lose the pico vca - again - get a full size veils clone!!!! it's a proper investment in your modular!

if you still want the rackbrute keep the lpg - to even up the hp usage, if I remember rightly the rackbrute is a weird 89hp or something...

if you go for the mantis & you should then you can get a bigger lpg... an optomix for example... which have more controls and better ergonomics (see below) and seem to be available again... and I'd also look to add a second vco (possibly another ona) and a better submixer(s) with controls for - possibly something modeled after the moog cp3 - adds a nice bit of grit when driven - AISynthesis Hamonic Mixer for example - I'm considering adding another 1 or 2 analog oscillators and will want to add 2 or 3 of these Harmonix mixers when I do...

ergonomics: newbies often don't realise just how small eurorack modules actually are... 1hp = 5.08mm (or 1/5") - accessibility to modules & controls is important... & your fingers are about 4hp wide... bigger cases and bigger modules are better because of this...

I looked at the Arturia RackBrute 6U with almost 3x the space. (You can find a rack sketch in my profile.)

I cannot truly express how much I dislike the rackbrutes... I could write whole sentences about it, the main point being the rack wart... why waste 5hp for a power input module??? really the tiptop mantis is a much better case (bigger/better power/no rack wart) for about the same money... get a mantis... or don't...

your linked rack is private, so unviewable

This might me the perfect size for me actually because it can (for now) fit my Neutron as well. The Neutron supports Eurorack rails and would be a great utility kit for the other modules: 2 VCOs, LFO, VCF, two ENVs, S&H, and even a delay! I can already see that this makes so much sense if I can interface those with my new modules.

of those, only the s&h is a utility as far as I'm concerned...

I'd want vcas as well... at least a quad...

Good point, but let's compromise on 2 VCAs + 2 LPGs ;-)

LPGs are intended for audio, think of the poor modulation... vcas are useful for cv as well as audio... if you are going to skimpon this I'd suggest one of the 2 channel veils clones - so you can get a second one in the future and correct your folly... the ability to cascade is important as it means you also get vc mixing...

hmm... I suggest some time spent thinking about the contents of my signature...

So you're telling me I need more controls/utilities? I added a bunch in my new rack, and then I'd now also have the Neutron. That ought to be enough for my first steps.

no, what I'm telling you to do is think very hard about the architecture of synthesizers and what makes modular actually make sense...

for example - if you have just an lfo, an envelope generator, a vco, a vcf and a vca - you have a very very basic monosynth... if you add in some utilities... let's say a simple mixer and a mult and some attenuverters you can mix the waveforms of the vco to create more complex ones before filtering the vco and you can modulate by different amounts the various parameters of the vco, the vcf, and possibly the envelope generator - giving you a much more interesting monosynth for very little extra cash - utilities massively increase the patching potential

can't see them (see above)

won't you be using the neutron as a voice so tying up the components? and see above

I take it you have an external mixer for end of chain mixing?

how are you going to raise the levels of the external synths to modular level fir processing?

Yes I run my other synths into an external mixer to get a line out/headphone signal. Eurorack output would plug into that as well. But like you said, I'd want a mixer in my rack for some down mix/level adjustment for sure.

almost definitely more than 1 mixer (which is why quad cascading vca - ie vc mixer) and some amplification (full size veils clone as it has lots of gain - enough to raise line level to modular level - as well as being a quad cascading vca)

I’ve thought of the same question “do all modules need to be on the same power supply”.. but more from an electronics POV.

I have 2 cases that use multiple power supplies - never had a problem...

I think you're trying to do too much in too small a case here...

I'd reduce to at most 2 sound sources (and even that's pushing it imo) otherwise there won't be enough room for support modules... although you might be able to use something like the doepfer mini synth voice to a whole voice in less hp...

personally I'd go for something like a mantis instead of this - still very portable - I've carried one many times on planes, trains and buses... and not much bigger - maybe a couple of inches - but you'll fit a lot more in a 3u row than in a 1u row... and then you'll probably be able to cram in 3 voices and still have enough space to adequately support them

It was great talking to someone experienced, thank you again.
-- justine404

Thanks for the tips !

NP

I've been looking at the Mantis also, it's true that I had in mind to quickly change to a bigger case after filling this one, you're right that's it may be a better idea to get a two row one now.

people complain about the price of cases... there's nothing to complain about with the Mantis... other than the usual occaissional lemon and trying to put too many high power modules in it - but this is the same with all cases!!!

I just learned hours ago that the Bialismus is a VCO not an effect centered module - I had heard several times before that it had great effects I just assumed it was mixing not generating - so you're right that it's too much sources for a start. I'll go with the Plaits, probably, even though the Iteritas one looked fun. The Plonk one is just added while messing with my config, it's a module I'll probably buy much later if it stills interests me.

yep -always helps to read the manual...

I was heavily leaning on an additional mixer already so that's confirmed.

you'll probably want more than 1 eventually...

As for Maths, I looked into the docs yesterday and it ticked several boxes for me. Just checked the link you shared, I will look heavily into it, seems like great infos on the module and on modular in general.

yes it's pretty much exactly that - a microcosm of modular - learning to patch program a single module then expands to patch programming a whole modular... and may steer you closer to modular synthesis than 'synthesis with modules' if you get what I mean!!! which will lead you to asking every time you see a cool 'new' module - can I patch that (r very close) with what I already have, and if so will it impact the other modules too much?

Didn't know about the Mutant Brain, looks like a great alternative !

there are many alternatives to almost every module!!! nb mutant brain is now made by erica synths - you may also be able to get the exact same functionality outside the rack - cv.ocd

Would you recommend trying my luck at a DIY case ? I've been thinking about it, could save me a few bucks.

I have 8 cases of which 2 were bought, 2 are 19" racks and I built 4 from scratch... if you want something aesthetically pleasing and 'perfect' and are good (and quick) at woodworking, then yes, building a case can save a few quid... but chances are that if this is the case it won't as you'll buy better wood and spend more time and money on finishing it than I did (I bought the cheapest wood I could find and spent nothing on finishing)

my experience as someone who hadn't done any woodworking for 30+ years before building my own cases is: I'm not great at woodworking, but don't really care they are functional and do the job - but that is all!!! did I save a lot? I guesstimate that I just about got 9u 104hp for the price of a mantis... not taking into account time and effort... saying that I did find somewhere that was reasonably priced for rails and insert (often these can be expensive) and I built my own psus/bus boards from kits (befaco excalibus) but mostly they only hold low power analogue modules and/or have a lot of passive modules/space in them - 1 or 2 cases need a 2nd power supply - I use an inexpensive one from frequency central for this - again DIYed - if I had to buy power supplies - I would have got a lot closer to there being no difference - at which point buying a case makes more sense - if it's in the price/size range of a mantis... if I'd had to buy any of the tools I'd also not have saved money - I borrowed a drill and cut the wood at the DIY store I bought it from

in other words you're not going to save a great deal, if anything, building a case - so if you're doing it to save money - and could be doing something better with your time - do that instead and buy the case... unless you like diy and have the saw/drill/soldering kit etc already

(sorry in advance for the stupidly long post)

not to worry...

OK here’s the first rack this noob is planning out…
I know it’s WAY too big and expensive - but the idea was to pick out stuff that has caught my eye/ear and trim it down from there.

it's a dream rack.. so a plan in progress... and as we know no plan survives contact with the enemy - the enemy in this case is...you!

I’m hopefully looking to build a 6u 82hp case if I can afford it, ironically it is cheaper to get this Behringer 6u 140hp - I just won’t fill it.

yes but is cheaper better? do you really want to give uli the money? maybe take a look at some of the reasons why you wouldn't want to... google them - they're easy to find

a better case is a mantis - best bang for buck of hp/cost/decent power/manufacturer reputation...

the b-company 140 hp case is a 'clone'-ish of the mantis - with no thought put into upgrading the power to compensate for the extra hp - so with the b-company version you may have power issues...

But I will be breaking the cardinal rule of starting small - willing to spend maybe $5-7K AU in one go (big for me) because of tax stuff…

the concept of starting small is not in relation to the size of the case - it's to do with the number of modules you start with - a bigger case is better so that you have space to expand into once you realize that the modules that you originally bought need more modules to support them to get the most out of them!

best advice - get a bigger case than you think you need (as you will need it & probably more down the line) and then just a few modules that comprise a minimum viable synth - a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to listten (a quad cascading vca will do to start with as a mono output) and a way to play it... possibly add some simple utility modules... and then once you have learnt those modules thoroughly - add 1 or 2 more and repeat - adding modules slowly - at most 1 or 2 per month

and read and spend time thinking about the contents of my signature... if you have questions - ask!

Rack will be used to integrate with existing hardware I have and my Interface/Ableton, but obviously would like to be able to perform with it standalone. (not that I will be gigging - but that’s the benchmark I’d like to set for usability).
For example - I have a Roland TR8S and other drum machines, but still want some drums in the rack.

percussion in modular is very expensive - I would leave this at least for now - especially as you already have external drum machines etc - I would initially concentrate on integrating what you have with the modular

Other hardware I’d like to expand/integrate using this rack are - DFAM, Neutron, MiniFreak, SQ-1, MC202, CS-15 (Hz/v) and Korg X911(hz/v).

see above

Apart from expanding my hardware - my studio is very much lacking FX, both lush and harsh, so the other key use will be outboard effects from my DAW and of course sound design sessions to compose with in the DAW.

the only reason for FX in modular is that they are cv modulatable, pedals and/or used 19" rack effects are often better value!

I have a Motu 828x - planning to use the ES-3, 6 and 7 to get 8in, 8out via ADAT. Went with this instead of the new ES-9, as I’d like to minimise using an aggregate sound card.

I would work out exactly what you need for dc-coupled i/o before committing... isn't the 828 dc-coupled? what DAW/cv control software are you intending to use?

I’d LOVE to get your thoughts on where I might be overlapping (likelyFX) to help me trim down the rack (and price). And also anything missing/lacking - (likely utilities)

Modules I’m deadset 100% including are: Crush Delay and.… hmm that’s it actually 🙂
But I’m 95% keen on Pam, DistingEX, and Rings.
Other “Tasks” that need to be filled are - 1. A sample slicer (for easy chopped breaks not granular FX), 2. A tight beat synced delay, ideally where changing sub-divs doesn’t repitch, 3. Lush reverb/shimmer/grains, 4. Some creative seq like euclidain w probability and basic perc section.

1/3 could be handled by clouds (or a clone) with the kammerl bet repeat firmware installed - but not at the same time - also includes a delay which is quite good

4 can be handled by pams

Here’s some comments on my decision making in this rack:

Pam’s - seems she’s a great workhorse for trig seq and mod - I’m OK with some menu diving as long as it’s clearly labelled.
DistingEX - same as above - want the hz/v - v/oct converter and interested in multisample recorder and of course the many other use cases.

nb disting ex - only 1 or 2 algos at the same time!!!

Sebsongs Odds - ? seemed like a cheap useful Rnd Seq.
Wrong Acronym - I just saw this at Superbooth and loved the thick distorted sounds coming out of it.
HN 3x MIA - useful attenuverters.

not only attenuverters, but offsets - very useful!

Joranalog Contour 1 - want a slew limiter and Divkid’s demo of this sold me.

also covered by maths!

After Later Beehive (Plaits) - seems every case needs one, but do I need it if I have my MicroFreak?

microfreak will output line level, have you included anything for boosting this to modular levels? can you control it with v/oct? does it have the new modes? wouldn't you be better off with a full size clone (eurorack is small enough already - 1hp = 5.08mm or 1/5" - really small - a lot of people are shocked by how small at first - trimmers are tiny and not very precise

Rings - Want these nice tones to juxtapose all the subtractive synths I have.

brilliant module - also excellent as a processor, not just a sound source

Maths - Essential apparently, but it’s so big! Are there smaller alternatives - saw the Falistri, smaller - but bigger in price.

it's not that big - it's smaller than a lot of guitar pedals - ergonomics are really important in having a good experience with your synthesizer... did I mention how s,all eurorack actually is? & did you actually comprehend how small it is - 1hp = 1/5", 1u = 1.75" - modules are small - modules that are overly cramped are a nightmare - maths has reasonable ergonomics!!!

& not essential - but it is very, very useful - especially as it has the most documentation of any similar module - see the 'maths illustrated manual' - download it - once you actually have maths repeat working your way through it until you are sick - and then continue - concentrate on how, why, what maths is doing...

falistri - yes it's a possible replacement for maths - but imo, the ergonomics and user interface are worse by an order of magnitude!!

Wrong LRMSMSLR - Saw this at Superbooth and think it’s a great idea.
Monsoon (Clouds) - Another one that seems to be in every case…

again you may be better off with a full size clone... better ergonomics etc

QuBit Nautilus - Liked the demo from Qu-Bit, but I seem to have a lot of time-based effects going on…
QuBit Aurora - I really like this demo, could this replace Clouds? (is that blasphemy)

clouds can be a spectral processor - it's one of the additional modes and it can be used as a reverb, although it's not it's core functionality - no such thing as blasphemy!!

HN 6x Mix - this seemed to be the best solution for mixer channels vs hp I found. I may need to reduce to one unit, Was hoping I could somehow patch together a hacked Aux send.
WMD MSCL - this more moreso to fill a gap than me thinking I need a comp, but I guess a comp is a good idea?

not unless you need one - filling hp for no reason is not a good idea - unless you want case buying to be a hobby!

ES ES-3 - Definitely keeping this - but are there issues running a long ribbon cable to connect to the ES-6 on the other side on the case? It makes sense to me like this.

you could just put the es6 next to the es3...

Ornament and Crime - Honestly I don’t really know what this does :) seemed very interesting and useful, but a lot went over my head.

then don't buy it!!! at least until you have done more research and understand not only what it does but also why it's the right module for you... same goes for every other module too!!!

uGrids - added this because it seemed like a great way to instant get some beat going while exploring other parts of the rack.
3 drum modules - I do want some basic drums -and these seemed good.

if you already have a drum machine then these should be really low priority!

Mutes and Comp - these are pretty much just fillers.

blank panels are better fillers than random modules!!! they are cheaper and just as useful

Joranalog Step 8 - This seemed really interesting - for it’s seq and mod and the cool polyphony voice management I saw in a youtube vid, but a) do I need it considering there’s Maths and Pam, b) if it is a good idea, would Stages be better? (slightly smaller).

there is no module that you need... buying a module just because it is slightly smaller than something else is not a good idea - do more research!!!

Bitbox Micro - I want a sample slicer - originally had Erica Synths Sample Drum here, but then thought maybe I should get a stereo one.

if you go stereo you will also need to improve the end of chain mixing - so that it can accommodate both mono and stereo

Crush Delay - This crazy thing is staying.
Joranalog Filter 8 - figured I had to have at least one filter in my rack, probably lacking there, could use my existing hardware filters too. The Divkid demo of this was amazing.

I'd go with more filters than sound sources...

4MS Dual Looping Delay - I want a delay just like this, but it’s SOO big! I think I can get away with mono - but I don’t know of a similar mono version.

isn't the new 4ms delay 1/2 a DLD? so big is relative - it's 4" across or something!!! actually tiny!

QuBit Prism - Loved the demo of this, the filter and decimator makes it more versatile - could this and Aurora replace Clouds and Nautilus?
ES-6 & 7 - Want these.

I haven’t even begun to look at power usage and whether voltages ranges with all modules are compatible.
For now, Guess I’m just showing off my first rack creation :)

you are over power on the +12v - you need to leave at least 25% headroom or you will almost definitely have problems - particularly with so many digital modules - inrush power consumption is often much higher than stated and stated figures are not necessarily accurate

as for voltage ranges - they are all compatible with the addition of attenuversion and offset - utilities are essential modules and in general much better additions to the average case than another oscillator or lfo or effect (& often less expensive and power hungry)

additional - you will almost definitely want VCAs - lots of them - I've suggested a quad cascading one above, but really in this size case I'd want at least 2 of those 1 for audio and 1 for modulation (so at least one needs to be dc-coupled) which will probably mean you may want more envelope generators...

the cascading part of the "quad cascading vca" means that it can also double as a mixer - I would also want more mixing in a case this size - not only end of chain mixing - which appears to be poorly thought out, but also sub-mixing so that you can combine signals before further processing and as always a matrix mixer is a very good proposition - especially for combining modulation sources to create more complex ones...

Hello,

I'm planning on buying my first modules in the coming months to fill an Happy Ending case from TipTopAudio.

why such a small case to start??? you will have filled it before you know it and then end up buying another almost immediately... better to start with something bigger - tip top also make the mantis which is a much better proposition - more space and much better power supply!

you are trying to do too much in too small a space... this is a very common affliction for newbies, don't worry, you'll come to your senses at some point!

I'm not really looking for anything generative, just a simple rack that offers a wide range of sounds.

this size case is too small to hold 3 voices (plaits, plonk and bia) and the modules that are needed to support them... if you really want to stay with the smaller case then reduce the number of voices to 1 - even in the mantis that is 2.5* bigger than this I would only recommend 2 or 3 voices at most!!

I've picked up Maths because it's well rated and seems to offer LFOs, effects and more.

download the 'maths illustrated supplement' - work your way through it until you are bored senseless and then continue doing so - think deeply about the what, how and why of each patch - eventually you may learn something...

Also chose Plaits as a VCO and Pamela as a clock and function module - apparently it can also be used as a quantizer or LFO ?

yes

To fill some gaps I've added an Expert Sleeper at the end.

For the rest of the case I was thinking of something maybe like an Iteritas Alter, a mixer or another small VCA, a multiplier or maybe even a Mutable Instruments module like Beads.

a mixer woul be a really good idea - preferably one bigger than you think you need right now - so that you hae a bit of space to expand

I was also looking into the Polyend Poly 2, as I have a Squarp Pyramid and I thought it could be pretty great to convert MIDI sequencing into different CV outputs to control the rack from the Pyramid. I guess that would require multiple VCOs to birth different sounds, so maybe way later if I'm deeper into modular and want to expend my rack. Again I don't fully know, let me know if I'm completely wrong here.

this is another good reason why you should get a bigger case - if you have the pyramid - some way to utilise it would make a lot of sense - although maybe a mutant brain would be a better option

EDITED Jun 6th 2023, 15:25

My goals:
- Small setup, both to save space and to enforce some limit on myself regarding complexity/spending => Intellijel 4U 62HP case

this is a common mistake - these cases are really too small for anything other than satellite cases for bigger systems or extremely focused single purpose synths...

if your end goal is a tiny case, then start with a bigger case, work out what you actually want in the case and what you need to support those modules and then get the case that you need to house the modules, not the case you think you want and then have to compromise yourself on the modules you use...

one of the main reasons for opting for modular synthesis, whether 'synthesis with modules' or actual 'modular synthesis' or somewhere in between, is to create a custom synthesizer to your needs - and constraining so much regarding the size of the case, is the opposite of this

btw you do know that 1hp = 5.08mm or 1/5" and that 1u = 1.75" or 44.45mm, don't you???

• Flexible setup, since I don't have "one" preferred style - I just love to experiment. I just need some oscillators, filters, modulation and maybe sprinkle some delay on top.

see above... you will not achieve a 'flexible setup' in such a small case, even if you fill it with modules that are too small to use!!!

• Room for expansion, because I probably want to add a module or two later when I'm more familiar with my setup. For now there should be 8-10 HP left in my rack.

hahaha - thar's not room for expansion over a few weeks or months - that's room for expansion for tomorrow once you've realised you have left out something important...

My ideas:
- Steppy and Alan - CV sequencers would be helpful to get some nice loops. The "Steppy" provides the basics, while the "Alan" adds randomness when needed.

steppy is a trigger/gate sequencer... NOT a cv sequencer...

Alan is a turing machine - it will generate random loops of cv

which means no way to generate 'composed' sequences of pitch (there are ways to do this even with a steppy, but not without a dedicated mixer) plus if you want to make 'music' which fits in with other instruments you will almost definitely need a quantizer...

• Passive LPG - All my other synths use VCAs, so here I'm going with two LPGs instead.

I'd want vcas as well... at least a quad...

• Rainier - I was first looking at the NANO Quart or Intellijel Quadrax, but the former seems a bit low on control options and the latter is quite large. Then I found the "Rainier" - it's small, has lots of features, and 2 outputs.

a peaks clone is a great idea...

• Cascades and Brooks - I first considered the NANO ONA but now moved on to (part of) the After Later Audio COCO series, with the "Cascades" as the main oscillator and "Brooks" as secondary.

I think 2 oscillators in this size case is too many... and you probably need more modules to support them... a mixer for example

• Forbidden Planet - I heard some nice things about this filter and it should be sufficiently different from "typical" VCFs, opening some possibility for experiments. Also with all the COCO outputs, it would be interesting to use the multiple inputs that the "Planet" provides.
• Timber - I wanted more sound-shaping options than just the filter, and what would be a better match for the west-coast LPGs than a wave folder? This one seems nice, doesn't take much space, and has lots of options with not too much complexity (?)
• Basil - Finally, a stereo delay effect to add texture and rhythmic complexity to my patches. It seems to offer a lot in a small package.

hmm... I suggest some time spent thinking about the contents of my signature...

My current setup:
- Elektron Digitakt (main controller, drum machine, sometimes basslines)
- Novation Bass Station II (mostly basslines, sometimes glitchy stuff)
- Korg Minilogue xd (basslines, melodies, polyphonic stuff, sometimes microtones)
- Behringer Neutron (whatever I can think of, it's fun to experiment)

Note: The "user" oscillator on my Minilogue runs some Plaits/Tides oscillators with limited control capabilities. For details see my Github project where I added some features to the original code. I would probably consider these in my rack as well, but they're kinda covered already elsewhere in my setup.
-- zykure

I take it you have an external mixer for end of chain mixing?

how are you going to raise the levels of the external synths to modular level fir processing?

have you tried the marketplace?

@Trismus For your 1U modules, whatever the brand of rack, you can think of the 1U to 3U format changers from Xodes. Like this one for example: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/xodes-fc313-28hp

I'd also spend some time questioning if 1u is the right format - I've never seen a 1u module that can't be replicated in 3u (and in much less hp) and those xodes adapters, whilst a great idea, take up a lot of space for the functionality they offer, at least in my opinion!

@JimHowell1970 London and the few places I've mentioned are linked to so many of my memories of the 70s and 80s. Concerts, studio sessions, meeting all sorts of nice people, and even... camping (in the East London suburbs, because it was cheaper and above all a wonderful vestige of 60's philosophy, cool :)) Having said that, I agree, London, which is an extraordinary city, is not the whole of England. Like Paris, for France, London is 'the eye of the duck', as David Lynch would say: when you look at a duck, you look at its eye, even if it's not the whole duck. I played on stage for the first time in Margate in 1972 (piano, not modular). My heart belongs to Kent.
-- Sweelinck

yeah - it's all about memories, I tend to like smaller cities, with fewer people in them.. especially at rush hour... but that's possibly got nothing to do with the cities themselves!

@JimHowell1970 is very kind in responding so often to requests for advice. Really. He's one of the mainstays here now.

Thanks...

However, I'm going to take the liberty of contradicting him on one point in particular: this case thing, that... Mantis.

discourse is good... but I'm not sure you're actually contradicting me! you just seem to be saying there are other cases out there... which is also good in itself!

Yes, there's the price of the case and the relationship with the number of HPs available. But a case isn't just that: there's also its overall size, its materials, its solidity, the power supply, whether or not it has 1U rows, whether or not it can be linked, the general style, etc. And it's the same as with the modules, with the way they're chosen. As with modules, there are the technical features, there's also the emotional connection with the whole object, or even a brand.

all this is correct... btw the power on the mantis is really very good - I use mine for gen2 lzx modules which are particularly susceptible to noise - you can literally see the noise in the output... and there is none - so these power supplies are clean up into the MHz, not just the KHz that audio uses...

also pretty solid - I've taken mine all over on buses, trains and planes - it's been dropped a couple of times and it's still in oone piece as are all the modules that it's housed...

all I'm saying about the mantis is that it's by far the best bang for buck case based on the combination of price/hp/decent power/manufacturer reputation

no it doesn't have 1u - but please someone show me something in 1u that can't be had in 3u...

and yes they can be linked and by the time you patch the it up you can barely see the case!!! which isn't that bad - and you can always get black these days!

4 years ago, I hesitated between several models of cases and the Mantis quickly became my first choice, but in the end I opted for Arturia's RackBrutes.

yup - I think they're fugly... and they waste space with the rack wart...

This is a personal choice. The most important thing is to feel good about it.

Absolutely... my opinion is mine alone and other people have theirs - obviously at least some of them are wrong - but that's beside the point!!! hehehe

And there's nothing chauvinistic, I'm French and I prefer London to Paris. Ah... Wardour Street, Leicester Square, Baker Street, Hyde park, Speakers' Corner, and the best hot dogs in the world (there should be a thread about this)!

I'm British and I dislike both... Paris kind of wins as at least there's ModularSquare... But then I'm a Northener and intensely dislike the capital-centric attitude of visitors ("I've been to London, so I've been to Britain" ), as I'm sure most people do, who live outside their respective capitals - which is usually the majority of the population

Hi, thanks for the advices.

I feel like even without an intellijel case, some 1U module a really cheaper and take less space in this format. That's why I'd put it in the case anyway, to have 1U utilities, very basic stuff. It's really much about saving place for me, having another 3U row would mean a bigger, heavier case.

as i said for the money I'd rather have 2 mantises... I've never seen anything compelling in 1u or that really takes less space in 3u...

both doepfer and ladik make inexpensive utilities...

About the DFAM, I would put it in for a while but if I ever needed space, it would be the first to go back to his own shell.

seems like a plan...

What kind of module you would have in mind about modulation?

I don't think you have too many modulation sources... get a matrix mixer to create more interesting ones from those in there...

For an extra filter, I think I would need one after a while (I'll first only get the LIP or the Generate), but I have nothing in mind atm. If you have any suggestion, let me know!

find one you like the sound and features of...

Hi,

Reorganizing my modules in racks, and I was wondering if I missed an easy way to switch a module between racks? It's kinda bothersome at the moment, since one has to search for each module after switching to the new rack...
-- nodens

i seem to remember you can copy and paste (see keyboard shortcuts above) between racks, but I might be wrong...

EDITED Jun 1st 2023, 21:15

hmm...

case seems a decent size (ie not tiny) and you seem to have chosen the intellijel case - due to the 1u modules which take advantage of the built in functions of that case... not a bad choice - although I'd always rather have 2 mantises for a similar amount of money - I've never seen the benefit of 1u - I'd always prefer an extra row of 3u (or better 2 of them - ie the extra mantis for the money)

the big thing I see is that the dfam takes up a lot of space (and power) in the rack, when it already has it's own case and power...

this means that there's not a lot of room left in the case for: an extra filter (1 per voice is a good idea), a decent end of chain mixing solution, more vcas (they are really useful for cv as well as audio), sub mixing (or even better matrix mixing of modulation sources to derive more interesting ones - possibly with voltage control), some switches - so you can redirect signals etc

it might be a good idea for you to take a look at my signature and spend some time thinking about it... especially the equation... which tends towards more versatility for less cash...

re clock dividers: I find a basic clock divider is useful as a sub-octave generator: using an audio input -> /2 = -1ve, /4 = -2ve - output is a square wave

I'm afraid of having duplicates or not enough utilities.

what do you think is duplicated? not that there's anything wrong with duplication

something like a happy nerding 3*mia would be decent addition

I edited the original post. THANKS !
-- timtoum93

no it's still just a jpg.... but not to worry... I've done it for you!!!

the actual rack,,,

the jpg doesn't correspond to either of your racks - please share the url of an actual rack - it really helps us help you!!!

I would like to be able to search between a minimum and maximum HP width.
-- hjorten

can't you just search by max width and then order by hp and stop looking when you get to the minimum you want?

possibly vapourware...

I think what Sweelinck is trying to say is that the majority of users on here use English as the language of communication... even if it's not their 1st language... it's the most used language in the world once you add in 2nd/3rd/4th/etc language speakers...

if you want others to help or discuss things with you then English is the language to use... even if it is just google translated... and pasted after your original Spanish - although I would go for English 1st (as that's what shows up in the topics list)

don't expect any replies in Spanish, but it's not being disrespectful... it's just trying to be more useful to more people...

remember the old Mutable forums... Emilie specifically stated "use English" - even though she was French - why? for this very reason!

if you don't want help or discussion about your racks, then it's easy enough to keep your racks private...

transferxl tends to work well for me

Thanks for the insight.

np

Can you elaborate a bit on "very synthesis with modules, as opposed to modular synthesis"?

what I mean by that is using fewer more complex multi-function modules - often things like full voices or things like zoia where the modules could be seen as complete synthesizers in their own right and to some extent this can tend towards being the antithesis of modular synthesis - ie someone else's idea of a synth (synthesis with modules) compared to more simple functional building block modules (modular synthesis) - there's no right answer - most people are somewhere in the middle, including me, but I prefer closer to modular synthesis, myself

What are some of your favorites?

matrix mixers, clock dividers, logic, switches

EDITED May 10th 2023, 22:23

for me:

very synthesis with modules, as opposed to modular synthesis

too many sequencers - even if 2 are 'random' - I'd probably lose 1 or add another case

not enough utility modules - these massively increase the patching possibilities in the rack

might be worth spending some time thinking about the contents of my signature

what would I do?

put money towards new (bigger) case & not worry about having to cram something into 2hp...

They only have one of each in stock..be ok 2 different ones?

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/feedback-cp3-mixer-full-diy-kit/

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ai022-kit/
-- Indianabones007

as long as you are happy, yes

at least learn to spell!!!

Thanks again :)

again np

Ok, think I'm getting somewhere now lol

Going to leave percussion for now..(maybe 2nd case lol) and use what I can to create a beat, need to learn that anyway as you say.

- the reason for this is it can easily get really expensive and often an external drum machine makes much more sense... obviously I haven't got much - as I have an external drum machine, an external drum synthesizer (both midi only though - which is a pain) and in rack drums - and at least 3 ways to sequence them!!!

I'll leave the MFX and go with the FX Aid pro just now, pure anologue sounds better to me, it looks great, i was originally planning on just getting the small one and MFX but decide which other one later.

the fx aids are still digital - the advantage over the mfx is the sheer number of different algorithms that are available - about 200 iirc and Igor doesn't seem to stop adding them... the advantage of getting the fx aid pro 1st is the screen, if you then get another and want to occupy less space - you can opt for one of the smaller ones (depending on how many modulation inputs you want etc) and then rearrange the algos on the pro so that the 1st 32 algos are the same as on the smaller model - this way you can easily work out which algo you are using on the smaller one (which just uses leds to signify the position)

Is this the mixer you were thinking of, my pal can put it together for me if needed. https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ai022-kit/

There is also this one and one similar with a mix control..https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115758587017?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=Cj0KCQjw0tKiBhC6ARIsAAOXutkoRF6OtlkVlL1gTITAwquPMOghldwNj8m6EudM2p5QBFq_sbg_1LIaAgUTEALw_wcB

yes either of those would work perfectly - the feedback module should also be available DIY (probably from their website)

I'd grab a couple - they're very useful - and probably soon after a happy nerding 3*MIA (which you'll want for modulation - once you start using the Maths properly - see the 'maths illustrated supplement' - you'll use the middle section of maths whilst patch programming)

if I were you I'd also grab a passive mult kit - and get your mate to teach you how to solder - it's not that difficult!!! and then build the mixers yourself!!! soldering is a very handy skill to have!

I was looking at filter, probably just leave that the now to have a better look bu the Doepfer wasp one looks good and would be different from Qpas.

I've got the WASP and the SEM and a ladder filter from Doepfer - amongst others - but really for the money they're pretty decent

if you're going to get a WASP - be aware that the ICs have a habit of blowing up - not a problem as they're inexpensive and don't need soldering... get your mate to add a few to an order if he's buying from a big supplier...

Thanks for your help and saving me money lol

:)

hahaha... you think I'm saving you money... I'm really just reallocating it!!!

Thanks a lot Jim, this is a big help.

NP

I wasn't thinking that the MFX was to be used a s a filter, I though it was an effect for reverb, echo etc. I see it also does auto panning and phasing etc. So it can be used as a transient shaper, so I take it this is more the filtering side of it?

My mistake - I've only got Pams from alm and confused it with a filter - it was late!!! in that case you will probably find you want at least one more filter, at some point...

The peaks clone looks amazing, that's ideal. Looking at the After Late Audio ones. I watched a video on it and the guy was using branches to get a nice kick and snare, would this be a good option for some percussion, just would like something in there to get a beat. I was planning on the Coral as it has so many voice and would work well with the OXI one sequencer I have, drums, chords etc.

I often use my peaks for percussion - but I have a lot more modulation options - and I'd recommend using it for modulation...

you can create a 'beat' by feeding noise (or any other audio source for that matter) into a vca and opening the vca with a trigger from Pams or Maths - I would not worry about this initially though - I would concentrate on learning to patch and getting to know whatever the first batch of modules you buy inside out

I'm really stuck on the mixer side of things, can you recommend a couple that would be good for the CsL utputs as you mentioned. I'll leave the matrix mixer until I find and learn more about them.

any basic mono mixer will do - a lot of people like moog cp3 clones - AISynthesis harmonic mixer for example - as it has some gain - so adds some nice harmonics - or a happy nerding 3*mia, or a mutable shades clone - you will probably find you want multiples of these types of module! you'll probably want an end of chain mixer with send and return at some point in the future... I like the tesseract modular tex-mix (as it's inexpensive, expandable and available as diy) for this purpose

So if I was thinking the MFX was going to be my reverb/delay and you recommend delay and reverb, what other modules would you be thinking, something like the FX Aid?

I'm not sure of the algorithms on the MFX - personally I'd go for a couple of fx aids - at least one of them the pro (so you can see what you are doing easily) - imo it's better to have at least 2 effects units - 1 for delay and another for reverb - some will offer delay into reverb, but that's not necessarily what you'll want to patch - maybe you'll want to have vco into reverb into filter

Case No. 2 , lol, was hoping not to go down that route but I think its inevitable lol.

yes, says he with 8 cases...

I'm planning on going in next wednesday to my shop and picking up the Peaks Clone, ALM Tangled Qaurtet and MFX, if you can give me some advice on the reverb delay and mixer I could maybe them as well and then that would do me till I get my head round the rest lol

Pam's can do random, logic and looped random quantized pitch - so I'd hold off on the instruo random and logic and the turing machine for now

the qpas and the mfx will probably be enough filtering - so again hold off on the instruo filter

I'd seriously contemplate the 2 instruo dual vcas with a quad cascading vca - alm tangle quartet or the intellijel quad - more functionality in the same space and for less than 1/2 the price

I'd probably replace the 2 adsrs with a peaks clone

the instruo lion I'd also hold off on and get a simpler matrix mixer - firstly so that you get a good idea of what a matrix mixer is and how it works and secondly because I'd lose the dongley bits (the i/o and the loop cable) - also less expensive - go for a doepfer for example

I'd look at your mixing solution in general - the instruo vco could definitely do with a dedicated sub-mixer and the end of chain mixing looks poor - no send/return

I'm not convinced of the benefits of the xpan either - a happy nerding pan mix jr would take up less space and be much less expensive

I'd probably leave the percussion module for case number 2

I'd also want some sort of delay and reverb in there - which you might just about be able to squeeze in with the space savings

there's no need to fill the whole case straight away - go slowly and buy a single voiced minimum viable synth and go from there

I'd suggest taking a look at my signature and spending some time thinking about it before spending any money

There's plenty of "sampleable" phrases from all the series and movies imo... nearly every episode has something profound in it...

I'm always building the next case before I fill the previous one... so I never run out of space... and never see a module as too big... I like decent ergonomics - and have some very large modules...

musicstore expect new mantises at the start of July

I got rid of the only erica pico module I had, the sequencer, I didn't like the reset...

Having been mentioned twice in this thread, maybe I should weigh in a bit...

1. whilst I can see the appeal of the tiny case - it'll fit in your handbag (or purse, if you're American) and they're on the cheaper end of cases - they're not really very good for beginners...

beginners need space to add modules to find out what they actually want and the modules that they really need to support them... part of the appeal of modular is that you can reconfigure your synth based upon how you patch it and having (over time) the ability to add 20 modules or so is useful as this will open up a myriad of possibilities in terms of patching which cannot be achieved with the contents of this rack... not buying a decent sized case also leads to the slippery slope of more cases - I should know I strated with a small (6u 72hp) case and having nearly filled it within 6 months bought a mantis - so I could fit maths in... I now have 8 cases...

also some small cases are quite shallow and won't fit some modules in (2hp, for example, as the pcbs are perpendicular to the panel and mot parallel) which can result in people using standoffs which is all very well until you manage to stick a patch cable in hte side and short something out...

go for a mantis (still inexpensive) or one of the intellijel performance cases if you must be tied into unnecessary things like output modules and midi in) they are still quite portable - I've taken my mantis on planes, trains and buses many many times and not had any issues

if you absolutely must have a tiny case - start with a bigger one work out what modules you absolutely must have in it and then buy the smallest case you can to house those - buy only once you actually know what you are doing...

MylarMelodies and others who show off tiny systems on YouTube are often only using them to highlight single modules or patches... having taken a few modules from their bigger case(s) and will then re-arrange them before the next video... and whilst it is possible to build a 'techno groove box in 62hp' it's probably not going to keep you interested for more than a few months...

2. work out the modules you want and then work out what you need to support them - and leave at least 20% if not more space and then find a case that can house those modules - and can power the extra space when filled - I always estimate 10mA per hp per rail - and then allow at least 20% headroom on top of that...

3. utilities, utilities, utilities... see my signature for some hints, but I'm not really talking about O&C or Disting EX - which can be useful but tend to end up being left as one thing when a dedicated module probably does it better* - I'm talking more about really basic things like vcas (you may or may not need a lot of these), switches, mults, attenuators, attenuverters, logic, clock dividers, and mixers... and whilst these can be inexpensive (doepfer and ladik, for example) they do take up space...

• my disting mk4 was used almost exclusively as a tape delay for years

4. ergonomics... small modules with tiny knobs do not make a pleasant playing field - not only do they need to be separated (you've managed to do this quite well) but they also need to be not next to other modules that either have jacks next to them that you will use or knobs - as you will not be able to get to the knobs to adjust them once patched without resorting to tweezers - which can be frustrating, to say the least

EDITED May 2nd 2023, 00:43

So my questions are:
1) what am I missing?

possibly nothing - what do you reach for? do you run out of mixer channels/vcas/envelope generators/lfos?

2) what do I have too much of/what's redundant?

nada - 'redundancy'/duplication is a good thing in modular - you never know when you'll want something for your nth voice that you used up in your n-1th voice

3) how would you spend that remaining 20 hp?

probably more utilities... and/or a 2nd fx aid... I'm contemplating a pro to add to my xl (so I can use the duplicate 1st 32 algos trick to see what I'm doing)

I'm not a big fan of "output modules" - in a lot of cases they are unnecessary... I've never used one in 7 years... but I've always had mixers with headphone outputs - a rebel technologies mix03 and a tesseract modular tex-mix... if I needed (& only if I needed balanced or isolated outputs - perhaps for playing gigs) would I spend money on an output module... so the question is what are you outputting to? I use a small old-ish (15years or so) yamaha mg10 mixer which can easily handle modular levels - just get your gain staging right (ie low) - and most mixers and audio interfaces will work perfectly...

and as for vc crossfaders and auto-panners - maybe get more vcas and patch them yourself - it's modular after all - and whilst pan-law is great - a lot of records were made without it...

don't skimp on power... failing to do it's job when you have a case full of modules is annoying at a minimum... and whilst any damage to either the modules or the power supply can usually be repaired it can take quite a while... and diagnosing what's been damaged can take quite a bit of time...