I wouldn't buy a linear only vca as a first vca - as it infers that it was designed only for CV and not audio

Veils overdrives very nicely - and is smaller - so that would be my pick! mutable manufacture also seems to be ok-ish based on new releases being available - so I'd expect that to be easiest to find, but that might not be the case as I've not looked

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Doesn't modular run a bit too hot for a normal line level mixer?

most modern mixers should be ok - attenuators can helpful if it's a bit hot - I used a 10 channel yamaha mixer for ages and had no issues whatsoever...

The CVilization seems really cool. Mode one (4x4 matrix mixer) and mode two (4x4 sequential switch) particularly so.
Thank you again for the steer to look at matrix mixers as I would have probably not looked into this functionality as deeply before.
If i find one of these modes invaluable then I could always get a dedicated module for that next. What is super cool about the Cvilization is that in either mode quantisation is an independent and additional function that can then be added to any output individually! And best of all does all this in 10hp!!

-- andyblondon

I know of at least one person who swears by the CVilization.... I'll have to check it out more! the fact that it does lots of things in 10hp may seem like a good idea to start with, but often turns out to be not so great - often you just end up using them for one thing and getting other modules to do the others - as you always want the multifunction module to do the 1 thing you really like on it - disting is a tape delay emulator for me 99% of the time - I should get a dedicated module - but the only 1 I really like is Magneto - it's on the list but at least 1/2 way down!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


personally I would try to keep functionality as separate as possible

so if in 6 months you decide you hate the quantizer, or just don't need it, you can swap that and still have the matrix mixer - plus I don't know if you can use CVilization as 2 things at once, which you will probably want with these 2 functions

AISynthesis, doepfer would be the matrix mixers I would recommend most - doepfer for ergonomics and price, AI for size

the only thing I've seen that I would combine would be vcas - but that starts getting quite expensive and big (4msVCAM)

do you already have a mixer? - if so I would try to do without the XOH - I tend to find output modules to be superfluous - unless you absolutely need balanced outputs or headphones - if you only need headphones - get a headphone only module! - otherwise a smallish external mixer (10-12 channels) is probably a better buy than an in rack mixer

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


the first 2 are definitely voltage controlled amplifiers!- so they can double as input modules - and potentially add some grit if needed - not sure about the malekko

most vcas, whilst technically amplifiers, have a max gain of 1 - so really constitute a different class of module - voltage controlled attenuators - which makes things as confusing as before as the TLA is still VCA!

I've got the older mutable veils - and I like that - no need to upgrade to the newer version, which I expect would be just as good if not better (and a little smaller) - so I recommend veils over the other 2 - but at the end of the day it's up to you: get the one you can find, at the price you want to pay, with the features you want!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


yes you generally tune your oscillators and then the v/oct is added - if you want to change the root note you would use a precision adder or some other modules that has that functionality

Not shaking my head at all - this is all a very personal journey - especially not on module choices or number of voices or cases - there are no bad paths - some are just more expensive than others

you seem to know what you want and have some idea of how to get there - time to grab the case and a few modules and start on your journey - go slowly if you can (learn each module as thoroughly as possible) and don't worry about not sticking to the plan

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I think I would look around for a used metropolis - quite easy to use, very hands on and a lot cheaper than the usta

would you want too use CVTools with ableton? if so you could get an expert sleepers es8 or es9 and bypass midi and have an audio interface built in

it's difficult recommending sequencers as they are quite personal - what works for me probably won't work for you - and a lot of people construct sequencers from other modules, or use multiple sequencers (and other modules) together to form a much more powerful sequencer

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


using a TM in that way is a good idea - or any random/noise source and a sample and hold or a sequencer - all good ways to automate some kind of song structure with Bloom/Marbles/Turing Machine

for this use case the 2hp TM is perfect - you may want to send that through a quantizer - if so the 2hp tune is a good bet - inexpensive and small - I still have both these modules - even though I have Marbles etc as they are useful to have around

no one has mentioned that you don't need the big addac quantizer with either bloom or marbles - they both have internal quantizers - so i would leave that out if I were you

as for rings, you mentioned it was too pretty sounding - it can get pretty aggressive in 2 OpFM Mode and is also a great audio processor - especially with some feedback patching - which I don't remember seeing in any demos

RND step is just more sample and holds - and you already have a couple available - I'd pass on that module in this size case

I'd look at more ways of combining the modulation that you have - a matrix mixer would be ideal

I'd probably want a more fully featured end of chain mixer too

the other things I would consider adding would be a disting mk4 - fills gaps when needed and great for learning - and an fx aid

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


hahaha

for all the old hands yes - but I think it's still a good idea to warn the newbies - give 'em a chance to run!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I hear you Jim but OP seems pretty good with VCV and you can always throw it in a Pod down the line.
-- troux

yeah I think vcv as an intro to modular is a great thing and that great things can be done with it!

I started with modular pre-vcvrack though! and sit in front of a computer all day!

and there's the start of the slippery slope - I'll just throw this module in it's own case - and this one - and this one!!!

hahahahaha!!!!!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


NP!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


+1 on that!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


an ES9 will take up a fair bit of real estate in the small rack, though!

whilst I think VCVrack is a great piece of software and really useful as a learning/exploration/travel tool - I absolutely hate using it!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


NP

I hear you!

but it's possible to "keep the budget down" whilst thinking longer term too... by buying modules slowly - 1 a month or less (after the first few) and buying a large enough case to begin with and sticking to it!!! - it's your journey - remember it does not have to be a race!

otherwise it can be a slippery slope:

I started out with a smaller case (144hp) and within 6 months had bought a second (mantis this time) case, because I didn't have enough space for Maths

If I had been able to buy a mantis as my first case I would have (they started shipping during those 6 months) - and I suspect very strongly I may have been able to stop when I'd filled it... mainly as I may never have discovered synth DIY or video synthesis* (see instagram.com/jimhowell1970 for examples!)

3 years on I have 5 cases (1200hp ish), almost full and a 6th case ready to be built (just need screws and bolts - but the DIY store is closed!)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


what do you want to achieve with the modular, in addition to that?

what sort of music do you make? and what do you want to make in the future?

do you want to sequence from the DAW - via midi or cv, or play via the midi keyboard, or what? - only you can tell us!!!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: 4ms pod

why???

maybe is this an example of how to go about designing modular synthesizers "arse about face" - overly influenced by you tube and instagram "influencers" and jumping on the bandwagon without any actual in depth research

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


no

cables and jack sockets generally work with signal and ground

you'll send the hot signal to ground and the ground signal to where you are wanting the actual signal - which may or may not cause damage to your modules - you are free to try it at your own convenience!

if you want to reverse polarity use an inverter or polarizer module - this will take the signal and reverse the polarity

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


+1 on this is unworkable and probably horrible to play - due to ergonomics - unless you have tiny fingers!

start with a blank sheet - decide what modules you want (and which modules you need to get them to work properly - hint - if modulation sources and utilities take up less than 50% of the rack then you need more of them - and for generative music maybe even more) and then find the right case - which may be slightly more expensive in the short term, but will save you money in the long term - remember it's a journey not a race!

as people have already said almost all these instagram/youtube influencers with tiny cases are taking modules from their actual rack to demo specific things - and the resulting racks are almost always one/two trick ponies

output modules are another point of contention - you almost definitely don't need one - unless you need balanced outs - if you need it for headphones there are smaller modules that will do the job - alm hpo

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


you appear to have started out with a case and then crammed functionality in

lots of people do this - it seems like a way of limiting costs - but really it just leads to either dissatisfaction and abandonment or another case very quickly - once the owner realises that modules are not VSTs - but lots of people also have no idea how small an actual eurorack modules is - they really are quite small - and are shocked when they actually get modules

however, this is, in my opinion, the exact opposite of how to put together a modular

there are for example almost no utility modules! - a token dual vca

a significantly better way is to find the modules you want, work out what modules you need to support them and then get a case that will house all those modules, with some space left over for future growth and then buy modules slowly - so that you get a chance to learn them in depth before adding more modules that you need to learn in order to use them properly

my advice = double the size of the rack, swap to full size versions of the MI clones you have in there and add more utilities

expect 50% of the rack to be taken up with modulation sources and utility modules - & imo this should be mostly utilities - you can do a whole lot more with fewer modulation sources and more utilities than with more modulation sources and fewer utilities

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


whatever works for you! good that you are going slowly and not just getting 12u straight off though!

yeah cases can get pretty expensive - it's easy to forget that they are very niche products - not mass manufactured - so a lot of economies of scale that you would expect in other areas, just aren't there - plus most of the manufacturers are in the 1st world - so labour is comparatively expensive - same for modules to a large extent too

I tend to just buy rails and DIY power and some wood, but I have bought a couple of cases

I think the Mantis and LC9 are the best value built cases by a long way - Mantis if you have more power hungry modules, the doepfer if you don't (the PSU3 is a bit underpowered for the 9u - great in the 6u though)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


it's already available - go to the datasheet view and scroll to the bottom (if you have to) and you will see power consumptinoo by row

remember to leave at least 20-30% headroom

but, why would you use psus with rack warts, especially 4 of them - this will cost you 16hp in rack space and use 4 wall warts and flying busboards

you can probably find a much better solution for all 4 rows for not that much more money

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


no specific recommendations, just thoughts:

I don't want to put you off modular, but you almost definitely will not get a more versatile (or whatever you mean by stronger) synth with the list of modules you describe, to achieve this in modular you will probably spend much much more than buying a waldorf or whatever fixed architecture synth you want to 'better'

buy a bigger case than you think you need - mantis is a good size, or the doepfer LC9 - smaller than this and you are paying way more per hp than makes sense

get more vcas than you think you need - a quad cascading vca such as veils is an excellent starting point

utility modules are your friends - they may look uninteresting, but they are the real deal in making modular more flexible(read stronger, if you will) than any fixed architecture synth

by utility modules I mean any and all modules that do not generate a signal (or primarily effect audio), but instead are used to modify, multiply and merge signals - so not a sound source, not a sound modifier, not a modulation source

imo a modular is balanced when at least 30% of the rackspace is taken up by utility modules (and I would not count final stage audio mixers or input/output modules of any kind in this) and at least another 20% is taken up by modulation sources

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I an help my neighbour with Pams but he still near a seqyeener
-- Raimond

there's no such thing as need a module of any type - filters can be vcos and sequencers can be patched from basic modules - lfos, random, envelope generators, mixers etc etc - and PAMs has the ability to generate quantized 'random' sequences - so the OP already has a sequencer - it just can't be purposefully programmed

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


First, thanks for the support guys!

sequencing : i Don't know
-- kaas
here are some things to consider when choosing a sequencer:

Do you use a daw? if so do you have an audio and/or midi interface? maybe a midi ->cv interface or a dc-coupled audio interface would be more suitable than an in rack sequencer (at least for now)

do you have other cv-able synths? that you want to sequence too? how many? you'll need to take this into account when choosing so that you have enough channels

do you have midi synths that you want to sequence? how many? maybe a sequencer that does midi as well as cv would be appropriate in this case

do you want to purposefully program sequences? or will random suffice for now?

if only the last answer is yes then pams will work for you - at least for now - this is probably a good thing as it will allow you to concentrate on learning the other modules - a dedicated sequencer can come later

if you absolutely must have a dedicated sequencer then I would suggest getting one with more channels than you think you will need - ie don't just buy one that has a single channel (as just like mixers, audio interfaces and vcas - you will need more, eventually)

in this size case I would want a maximum of 3 voices - otherwise there will not be enough room for the support modules - ie utilities - that make modular worthwhile over a fixed architecture synth - that would suggest that you need a sequencer with at least 4 channels (eventually) - but (and I'm contradicting myself a bit here) you could use less sequencer channels and tune your vcos to intervals - so vco 1 is tuned to C and vco 2 is tuned to G - send the same CV to both (via a buffered mult) - if you use the same envelope for both you are playing 'power chords', but if you use different envelopes for each you can do more complex things

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


quantizers only tune v/oct not vcos

if the vcos are out of tune, then it does not matter if your v/oct is quantized or not - the oscillators will still be out of tune, unless you've tuned them

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


yeah - I think Lugia was expecting this to be a pre-buying thread as so many are! - as a newbie there's no point putting discontinued modules in your want to buy

re utilitties: there are utilities and utilities

personally I do not count Maths or disting as utility modules - they are both extremely useful (I have both - well a newer Maths)

when I talk about utilities I mean simple modules that can modify, merge and multiply electrical signals - not generate them - and not really audio effects

I would look at (and yes you can patch some of these with Maths or select an algorithm in disting, but then that's used!) waveshapers/folders, matrix mixers, sequential switches, attenuators, attenuverters, offset, basic mixers, more vcas - veils, perhaps and then go on to discover more types of utility - maybe buy some to use with audio - I'd say 30-50% of a rack should be modulation and utilities - to some extent the more utilities you have the fewer modulation sources you need, but the more complex your modulation will be - a balancing act obviously

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


one would hope - utilities, utilities, utilities - and more space for more utilities

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


OP - make the rack public!

so we can copy it and rip it to pieces!!!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


sequencing: yeah, not sure about pitch sequencing to be honest. I havent found anything small and convincing for in rack sequencing, so im considering a beatstep pro.. if u have any leads, let me know! for drum sequencing i will use euclidean circles for kick hats and dfam.

I think you are going about the the wrong way - as are a lot of others - especially those who ask "how to fill my Xhp gap"

start with the modules that mean something to you and fit the case around them (with space for expansion) - NOT buy a case and try to cram everything in - which happens so often - especially with people 'trying to economise' - small cases = false economy
or
just get used to getting more and more cases!!!

Noise Engineering have a weekly question on instagram, a while back it was what is your main sequencer? - my reply - pams, sinfonion, erica pico SEQ, marbles, branches, zularic repetitor, beatstep pro and fader step... they are sequencer modules - that combine to make a sequencer

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


read the pams manual - pams can generate envelopes - as well as triggers and random quantised sequences

how are you planning on sequencing?

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


you don't need an extra lfo, but you might want one - modulation is probably one of the most important things in modular - decide if you want sync/reset or free running lfos

personally I would add a matrix mixer instead of another modulation source in this size case - very useful for combining modulation sources - and can also be used for feedback mixing, amongst other things

fx aid xl seems to be the best bang for buck multi fx module - more modulation, more effects and less cramped than a lot of the competition

incomplete power means no one tested and noted the power consumption in modulargrid - it maybe available on the nlc website though - or not, you should be ok as long as you leave enough headroom - 20-30% or so overall - I always use 10mA per rail per hp as an upper guide - it is probably less than that - this is one of the reasons why it is better to design the case around the modules rather than trying to fit modules into a case!

replace the intellijel quad vca with veils - saves 2hp

the tritone is probably superfluous - you have filters! - if you want this much control I'd consider dropping this and one of the filters and getting mutable shelves instead

probably not enough mixing capabilities - for submixing pre filter, final stage mixing etc - I'm guessing final stage is external

not enough in the way of utitlties in general in my opinion - I'd remove the mult and doepfer a118 and replace with mutable links and kinks - and add a shades - or at least their functionality - read the manuals carefully

you may not need the adsr - most people use simpler envelopes - unless they are specifically using a keyboard to play

how are you sequencing/playing v/oct? - depending on this you may not need the quantizer - or you may need a sequencer!

I'd consider a disting (mk4 or ex) as it will be useful working out what functionality you need

I would go very slowly adding only a few modules to start with and then expand as you feel you are missing things - try to make sure that you know modules fully before buying new ones!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Je kan eerst ook een enklouige enveloppe generatior nemen ie is een stuk goedkoper
-- Raimond

might be better to stick to the common tongue - ie English!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


yes it is

and congratulations on choosing a case that is a decent size!

if you don't already have (all) these modules then:

black pams may be unobtanium - iirc it was a limited edition!

plenty of space = no reason not to buy an original plaits - not only better ergonomics, but Emilie, the original designer, gets paid!

you probably don't need the adsr - unless you are planning on playing with a (cv) keyboard - I'd swap this for a bi-polar lfo - doepfer will do perfectly well

are you planning on sequencing from pams?

how are you planning on listening?

next purchase VCAs - don't skimp - get a quad (veils, perhaps) - you may not think you need them now, but you will - they are just as useful for modulation as for audio

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


use both wall warts as specified in the manuals of the moog and power supply or buy a bigger case that has enough power for everything including the moog on the eurorack power rails

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


maybe, maybe not - other than plaits in built vcas I see none

I would choose a mantis over this case every day - but I'm not a fan of the 1u tiles at all

then you would have space for vcas!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: new to this

not really - maybe move the neutron to the side so that the beatstep pro is nearer the modular

maybe get some longer cables - moving things around can be a good idea from time to time though

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


hahahahahahahaha be scared, be very scared!!!!

not really! to be honest apart from the core of the video modules - which I sold 3 guitars and a bass to cover (I have more, don't worry) - I've not spent much more than your £300/month budget

you're not really missing anything from the 'big stuff' - it's the support modules that help them play together nicely that are missing

utility modules are the (mostly) inexpensive dull polish that makes the shiny expansive modules actually shine and not tarnish quickly

in your situation I would buy (maybe over time) the 6u rackbrute, maths, a filter that you like, veils - which also has a nice gritty overdrive, btw - an fx aid xl - and a disting mk4* - and then stop and just play with those for a few months

  • disting is fantastically useful - it has a lot of uses and can be both a learning tool and a stand in for other modules as required - a lot of people take one look at it and go - "ah a menu, not for me" - a lot of others buy it to try and don't get on with it - mostly because they are constantly fiddling with it to try every algo there is rather than spending some time setting up favourites and have issues reading large manuals - everytime you swap the algo it's like a new module - but a lot of the i/o is similar etc etc - ie the positives far outweigh they negatives, especially in a smaller rack - I will always keep mine - despite to a large extent having physical modules for most of the functions that it provides - I use the tape delay a lot - and some of the functions are in the I just might need that some day category (also one of very few modules with a pitch follower - which is useful if you are using external instruments - as is an envelope follower)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


It's a pie in the sky anyway, since I don't have $3500 sitting around to actually build it at the moment.
-- hostnik

you don't have to buy it all at once - it's modular - you can buy a module as and when you can afford it - get a mantis or doepfer case over the rackbrute though - both are better value for money and neither have a rack wart!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


did you have any direction in mind? more voices, signal processing, upping your modulation game

what sort of music are you making - and what do you want to make - this often helps in module suggestions!

how much rack space do you have available???

what do you find yourself using the disting for mostly - 1st thing would be to get a dedicated module to cover that use of disting so you can use your disting for something else!

and remember - you can never have too many vcas - so a quad cascading one is a good investment

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thanks for this Jim,

NP

You are so right about the rack but there is just something so aesthetically appealing about having it in the same wood etc and attaching to the brute nicely etc.
I am wanting a fun mini modular setup hence the 3u.

I completely understand the want for a rackbrute, given the minibrute and the ability to connect them - but seriously consider the 6u instead of the 3u - it's quite a lot cheaper per hp - and you will almost definitely need the hp - 6u is still quite a small modular - fill the gaps with blind panels - you can make them from cereal boxes if you don't want to spend money on metal ones - plus it folds together and fits the carry case better

I play many acoustic instruments in my music with real drums, guitars, bass guitar and a Rhodes piano. I love working with samples too and have always used an MPC for doing that. I am far more ProTools than Ableton 😄

I don't get on with Ableton either - used to use ProTools but moving to logic

I am not looking to become an out and out electronic music producer so to speak and have a clear-ish scope of what sound spectrums I am looking for from my synth. I have not gone gate heavy in my modules as these seem more for drums etc. - i might be waaay off here though.

gates trigger and keep open envelopes, envelopes open vcas, vcas let signals through when open - they're kind of useful!

The brute does a great job for what I want but hope that with just a few more modules I could add a bit more depth, texture, polish and complexity to the sound.

I 'just wanted a few modules' a few years ago - I now have a 100+ module synthesizer that outputs both audio and video which was never my intention and neither was synth or case diy (most of my cases and half the modules are diy) - it just creeps up on you!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


well that was quick ! - this was started before your reply to my last post - I'll reply to that separately....

ok so some great modules in there - again - bigger case recommended - as I suspected not a lot of utility - think plumbing! they are 'essential' for extending modulation - mixing, modifying and multiplying - really really important for the enjoyment of modular - almost as important as ergonomics!

rack wart - i hate these with a passion - especially these arturia ones - needless, overly big module with overly big branding if you ask me

plaits - fine - it's a good module - very flexible

mimeophone - it's huge - and not really enough modulation/utilities to support it fully I would suspect

polaris - it's a filter - I'd hold off on this one longer as plaits doesn't really need a filter

I'd want more vcas - they are incredibly useful for modulation as well as audio and plaits has a built in vca/lpg so you don't really need one for that - use another 4hp (in your bigger case) and get a veils! almost the same price but twice the vcas! veils will also double as an input module for external instruments - as it has up to 20db gain available - most vcas are effectively voltage controlled attenuators, not amplifiers - despite the name!

links is great - but I'm not convinced that you need a buffered mult at this stage and the mixers are very simple (ie no control)

distortion - hmm - I'd be more tempted to get a pedal interface and use a pedal - especially if you are determined to stay with the tiny case - and if you already have pedals - AISynthesis do a reasonably priced one in 2hp and it's even cheaper if you can diy!

Maths - brilliant module, a bit too big for a 3u, but buy this first - work your way through the illustrated manual - 32 patches for patch programming - the best modular primer there is, imo

Wobblebug - it's a great module but it's too big for this case - there are many many random sources - find something smaller

are you using an external mixer?

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I am taking the first nervous steps into Modular.

cool + welcome!

My plan is now to get a Rackbrute 3U as my next steps and am thinking about what modules to pair with the minibrute.

No - see below

My plan is to spend around £300 per month to get one or two new modules every month give me time to get the hang of what they do and how to use them as well as still pay the rent!

sounds like a sensible plan!

Having done some research I have filled the 3U with the modules in the order that I plan to buy them (this is not the order that I plan to place them in the end)
I know that I could obviously get more in a 6U rack but think that there is a creative plus (and financial one too) to limiting what you have in some ways and this is only one part of my music making set up.
What do you guys think?
Would you suggest a different oscillator or filter to contrast the Brute 2?

will wait and comment when you've posted the link

re case: look at the total cost of ownership - price/hp - the 3u is way more expensive than the 6u and you will run out of space in the 3u very very quickly - personally I would get a mantis - way better value for money than the rackbrute - and no rack wart - but each to their own! - I'd recommend getting a jar (or dedicated savings account) and putting the rack rent* for each module you buy in it - by the time the current case is full the next case is paid for!

*rack rent = hp of module * (cost of case/(hp of case - hp of rack wart))

Do I have too much modulation and not enough sound source or vice versa?

almost definitely not enough utility modules

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


copy and paste the url of your public rack

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


matrix mixer, sequential switch, kinks, logic and quite frankly all the other ones, it really depends on you

have a look at a few different types and try and work out how you would use them - particularly for modulation purposes (sa you mention that) - extending what you already have in more interesting ways than 'just getting another eg/lfo' by mixing, modifying, multing and switching

my other suggestion would be to spend the money on the next case - then you really won't care about the fact you only have 14 hp left

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


utilities - just like almost everyone else who has to ask!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


for me it would be more modulation sources and the utilities needed to combine, modify and distribute them

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I really like the idea of Grids, but every time I see that panel I think it ought to be about 6hp...

(Yeah, I know there is an 8hp clone, and yeah it does look a bit cramped.)

Seconded on Veils -- also the response shape is variable, and it works as an offset too! Great module!
-- the-erc

that's why I like Marbles - it's slightly larger than Grids but adds so much more! especially with a branches sitting next to it!

veils can also double as an input module/overdrive as it has a decent amount of gain (+20db available)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: new to this

unless you are buying used or diying edges and peaks are discontinued - and edges is quite big for a vco!

spend thousands on modules - spend pennies on power supply to power them - do you see what's wrong here???

I don't think you need a quad adsr in this rack and it's huge!

do you really need 3 vcfs?

I'd rather have a fx aid xl than the knock off effect unit and the spring reverb

I would want more modulation sources and utilities - Maths (see illustrated manual), stages, a matrix mixer, kinks, attenuation/attenuversion/offset (possibly shades or mia or miso) - imo these are the really interesting parts of modular - modulation and how to combine, modify and distribute it are way more important than which vco/vcf or how many

I'd also want a waveshaper/folder and an lpg

I'd rather have a quad cascading vca with some level of control rather than the octal vca - and with both linear and exponential response - nice try though - veils would be my choice for replacing this

start slowly - a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play (external probably from what you've listed) and a way to listen - I expect you have an external mixer already (if not get one as it will make more sense with the other things you have already)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: new to this

actual link to rack - ModularGrid Rack

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


looking better - at least to me!
yeah if you already have modules keep them - people seem to really like rene
I often use the marbles 'grids' mode it's great for getting a drum pattern quickly - 1 thing I do though is to take the middle output and send it to a mutable instruments branches - which I patch to get (skip/open/close) - this may add a lot to grids too, I'm not sure - so maybe that and kinks would be good next modules
it's not a bad thing to have to wait for modules due to financial constraints - you'll learn a lot about how your modular works
tbh if it's a toss up between pams and maths - I'd get maths first
I'd also consider veils instead of the 3xVCA - 4 hp bigger and a little bit more expensive (but only a little) but you get an extra vca, which is never a bad thing

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I'd go for a quad vca - you can use them for both audio and cv - so 4 is a better number than 1 or 2 even in a case this size - veils is only 10hp

I'd go for mia or select 2

Personally I reckon that Maths is a better 'my first proper modulation source' than anything else - due to the existence of the maths illustrated manual - which is a great modular primer - ie how to patch complex things from simple building blocks

I'd also recommend looking at kinks - really useful functionality in a small space

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities