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That's brilliant news!!!

both for you and others who want them and that they are going to keep making them

Hey guys,

I planned this minimal system for very specific generative music purposes.

I wanted to limit myself to this tiny 42hp case by Erica Synth.

Hi Traxy and welcome!

I hope you don't mind me asking, but why limit yourself to such a tiny case? especially for generative music, which often benefits from much, much more modulation, especially layers of changing modulation over time?

perhaps you could elaborate '"very specific" generative music purposes? so we know what you are talking about!

Have you actually bought any of this yet? or is this just a planned system?

I am assuming that it's a planned system - not actual (but if you do already own it then some of the below will still apply):

the really good news is that you have at least kind of got everything you need in there to make a basic patch and listen to it (on headphones or laptop speakers) but there are issues - not least that at least 1 the modules won't actually fit in the case! (according to MG and erica) - & yes you could get some m3 spacers - but talk of making the beauty case fugly!

I'm not convinced that the doepfer LFO will function exactly like you want it to (and would benefit from attenuators and of more vca channels) and I think you will be bored by it very quickly as your only modulation source

O&C - yes it's a great module and got a fuck load of functions, but remember that it can only do 1 thing 4 times at once (stock firmware) or 2 things twice at once (hemispheres) these are often functions that especially in a tiny case you are better served with a single channel of more of them - so you are taking up all or 1/2 the module constantly for generating v/oct - can't remember if it's quantized or not - if not that's the other side gone! and you probably only intend to use plaits as a v/oct controlled voice and then run it through clouds as an effect - instead of using clouds as sound source too... because you do not have enough mixer/vca channels to do this - so you only need 1 channel of v/oct not 2 - I'd possibly suggest the 2hp tm and tune - if you had the space and I thought they would fit in the case!

plaits is a great choice in such a minute case as not only does it have an on board modulation source - so you really only need to think about modulating clouds! - but it also has an onboard lpg (low pass gate) which is a combination of a vca and a filter - you only need to trigger it to get a nice decay envelope - so no need for envelopes (at least for now)

I just checked the depths of the modules and case - the erica case is only 40mm deep and definitely the vca (45mm) is too deep and there's no info on the depth of the beehive (may fit may not)

plus I would want more vcas at least 4 all for modulation - buy a load of stackcables and mult the modulation everywhere through the vcas - the vcas should at the very least be able to attenuate the input signal - clouds really benefits from attenuated modulation!!!

Personally I think that this system is not big enough to be an enjoyable synth over a long period of time - so the usual advice - and the advice I'm going to give now! - is go for a big case to start with and fill it with the modules you want AND the modules you need to get them to work properly, slowly over a decent period of time so that you can get to know them well and, often more importantly, spread the cost out over time - this also allows you to (at least to some extent) get the right case for the modules instead of trying to jam tiny unergonomic (unplayable in a lot of cases) and, often wrong, modules for you into a 'beauty case'

yes I know the youtube influencers make it look so cool with their beauty cases adjusting trim pots with tweezers and waviing their synths around in the air... but most of them have massive cases that you can't see on their videos, that they swap modules in and out of to make videos on (mostly because it's easier to film a beauty case than a big one)

And yes I know there are a lot of arguments for starting small, but, I've never seen one that didn't have a very persuasive and sensible counter-argument

If you haven't seen it please read this post on muffwiggler (at least the 1st post) https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245154

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 19:01

have you tried contacting them? - there's a mail link in the middle of their home page

same for the black zularic repetitor I have!

I don't have a passive lpg - but I completely agree that they can replace vcas in some cases - mostly audio I would supect

still need vcas though - for modulating the modulation, non-filtered audio etc etc

a-116, a-136, a-137-1, a-137-2 are the ones I have

the maths illustrated guide is a collection of 32 self-patches for maths

this introduces patch programming of a single module (maths obviously) and will massively help in terms of how you think about patching overall - especially in terms of constructing complex functions from simple building blocks - this is a key skill for modular synthesis - which is why I always recommend maths as the first modulation source - even if you have lfos and envelope generators, mixers and attenuverters - get maths!!! there is nothing wrong with overlap of functionality, especially when it comes to modulation and utilities

matrix mixer:
mix copies of modulation sources to increase the number of modulation sources you have

feedback mixing - mix 3 inputs with an output - possibly filtering or otherwise modifying the output before mixing it back in

use to set up send/returns for effects - ie stereo signal in to 1 & 2 output of 1 & 2 to effect effect back into 3 & 4 inputs - mix 1 & 3 and 2 & 4 to outputs 3 & 4 (or similar with mono signals, more effects etc etc)

and whatever else you would use a mixer for...

the main disadvantage of the Doepfer Matrix Mixer is size (takes a lot of hp - 20!)

the main advantage of the Doefper Matrix Mixer is size (ergonomics)

Currently I have 3 matrix mixers - a pusherman, a york modular and a reverse landfill video matrix, I can see myself adding the doepfer, as well, at some point in the future!

VCAs - 2 for audio & 2 for modulation per voice - is a good starting point...

1 vca for basic note on/off
1 vca for overall volume - so you can bring the voice in/out
1 vca for modulation
1 vca for modulating the modulation
OR just 2 for modulation

not all voices will need 4 vcas, but some may need 10 - depemnding on hoow much modulation/modulation the modulation you do!

once you get into the technique of modulating modulation - you use a lot of vcas!!!!!

Veils is a great VCA - I don't have the new version but I do have 3 of the older version (I haven't counted, but I think I have over 40 vcas including those embedded in plaits, for example)

EDITED Mar 8th 2021, 15:38

I like all the doepfer wavefolders - I have all 4 - but I use them for video

They can be picked up very cheaply used - so are worth a try - even if you resell them

for audio I'd pick one of the other ones though - or a Befaco Chopping Kinky

I'd also want more basic utilities for modulation purposes - kinks and a matrix mixer would go a long way, possibly a sequential switch

EDITED Mar 8th 2021, 08:10

I'd watch out for power with this (see other thread re 'electrical concern') - those go cases are a bit under-powered in my opinion and there may well be inrush issues with so many digital modules (at least 12 of the modules in this rack are digital at a quick glance)

I'd strongly suggest creating an abstraction of this case with 1 row per +ve rail power section - go to the bottom of the sheet view and you will see power consumption per row - or in this case per section of the +ve rail

this will enable you to see the distribution of power better - leave at least 30% free on each of the zones and each of the other power rails (especially the -ve)

if there are still inrush problems then either adding a rack wart psu or experimenting with inrush delays are going to be the answer - wmd make one

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 16:30

I hope you switched off straight away!!!

are you sure the power cable is in the right way? on both the module and the busboard

are you sure the power cable is correctly made - red stripe should be to left when looking at the keyed side on both connectors - lining up with a tiny embossed triangle

have you left 30%ish overhead on each of those sections on the +ve rail?

it could be over draw on one of the other rails? -ve perhaps or 5v - same for headroom! I'd be surprised if it were 5v though, -ve not so much - I have a mantis, which b-company 'cloned' the go case power from, and I think that is under-powered on the -ve rail (but I have quite a few -ve hungry video modules in there)

if all that is ok - ie the connection is good and there is (supposedly) ample headrooom on all rails - then there's still the possibility of inrush being the cause - and not necessarily just from this module - it is cumulative - it's quite likely that if you have multiple modules with higher inrush draw than stated (often digital modules) that this can occur - so spread the digital modules out as much as possible - and if necessary shift them around a few times until it works - try moving things around so that this module is powered from another section - or remove some modules from that section and move them to another that has more room

if you still have problems - either add an additional power supply rack wart module style (ugly hp thieves that they are) - or wmd make a plug in for the power connector that delays the start up of a module for a short time to delay the inrush until other modules have started up

maybe creating an abstract version of your rack here would be a good idea - use 3 rows instead of 2 - each row is a section of the power supply - if you go to the bottom of the list view you can then see consumption by row (or in this case section of power supply) - I often do this where I have 2 power supplies for 3 rows in a diy case - if you make the rack public and copy paste the url in here maybe someone will take a look and help you

mostly the problem with wasp filters is that one of the chips dies - it doesn't happen that often from what I can make out - it's socketed so an easy replacement - no soldering required and the chips are cheap from what I can remember

20 seconds on google and I found it to be a CD4069 chip that fails - the originals are TI, but apparently ST or MCI have significantly better longevity - buy a few and you should be good

I only looked quickly at mouser - the TI chips are 0,52€ each or 10 for 4,39€ + tax and shipping

yes it makes more sense to me too

well filter is one of the things that maths can't do - here is what it can do (which is a lot): https://w2.mat.ucsb.edu/mat276n/resources/systems/CREATE_teachingSynth/manuals/8c_Maths2013-V1.11-printable.pdf

I would spend some time on youtube and forums researching filters - they all sound different etc...

I'd definitely look at doepfer filters though - as they are inexpensive and decent - mostly based on classic synth filters, as are most others to be honest, to a greater or lesser extent

maybe get a couple so that you can have some variation - one for the sub and one for the main output - maybe a wasp style (gritty) and a smoother moog style one - send each to a different cascading vca channel, but with a different rhythmic envelope going to each and different modulation to the filters and you suddenly get 2 voices from your single vco - buy doepfer and the pair together are cheaper than a lot of other filters - and just as good!

I'd be tempted to get a stages - it'll give you envelopes (from simple decay up to 36 stages if you chain 6 together), lfos, and a host of other functions as and when you need them - including a harmonic oscillator

I'd also recommend something for mixing (copies of) the outputs together to make more interesting patterns - a simple unity gain mixer with no controls will do the job - or a matrix mixer - which will do a much better job, but will be more expensive and take up more space

if the lfos you do get are uni-polar (stages is, for example) you might also want to consider adding something like shades - atttenuversion, offset, precision adder (for accurately adding v/oct signals) and mixer rolled into one

you may be thinking why do I need so many mixers?
(multed and) mixed modulation = (more) complex modulation
mixed lfo and envelope = tremolo effect
mixed v/oct and a tiny tiny bit of modulation (may require multiple levels of attenuation to get the right level) = vibrato
mixed vcos before filter = fatter (due to detuning etc) or accents one vco tuned an octave higher than the other - open filter more for accent
feedback
transposition - precision adder
etc etc

and all that may be for a single voice before hitting a final audio mixer - and most of those might want vcas and you probably want vcas for modulation on top of that - hence the saying - you can never have too many vcas - which should also be extended to mixers imo

as you are planning on playing from a midi keyboard - I'd get the midi converter asap and plan on adding as many simple adsr envelopes (as i suspect this is what you will expect to hear) as the midi converter has gate outputs - doepfer and frequency central both make great dual adsrs that are both reasonably small and inexpensive

makes sense... if I was in North America or Japan I would definitely invest in a good output module - thankfully I have balanced power though!

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 03:02

The Serge NCOM is pretty nice @JimHowell1970
-- troux

hmm yes I know - looks great - as does the Joranalogue - but as I already have 2 available - they either would be a long way down the list - I'd probably go for the ncom of the 2 though

addendum - I was just flicking through the maths illlustrated manual - I'd forgotten that you can patch maths as a comparator - so I've got at least 3 then...

I

do

not

need

any

more!

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 16:17

I'd want a lot more utilities
-- JimHowell1970

WRT this point, any kinds of utilities you see missing from this that you personally couldn't live without? Not assuming that your needs will meet mine, please keep in mind. I just haven't found much need for any others that can be replaced with something 0hp/outboard. With the one exception being a precision adder... which I reluctantly took out of this build.

-- merzky_shoom

It's not so much that you are missing huge amounts of functionality - the utilities you have I would all want I would just want more of them - especially vcas (modulate the modulation of the modulation not just audio!) and mixers (I'd want at least one matrix mixer, probably 2, for mixing modulation sources and feedback patching, and possibly some more small sub-mixers)

I'd probably also want to add rectifiers and logic modules and another sample and hold (so maybe a kinks)

I think you'd miss out on a lot by staying away from the community completely - there's absolutely no need to post if you don't want to - if only for things like the "today my small discovery was..." thread on muffs

tbh I'm not that interested in new modules - I scan them and maybe read the details of 1 in 10 and "watch" (skip through for interesting bits at least) a video of 1 in 30 - but in terms of gas it can be dangerous - I "watched" Robin Vincent filling a new case last night on youtube and now I want a deckard's voice as well as a magneto!

I'd be inclined to keep the nifty case so you have somewhere to expand into, just in case!

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 01:17

thoughts:

I didn't think I'd ever want more than 144hp - until I did... took about 6 months to get to that point and now I have about 1200hp - but saying that I may have stopped at 208hp if I'd bought a bigger case to start with (mantises were not available at the time)

odd-pairings are probably a good idea and overlap is no bad thing

if you want to stay at this point - stop coming to modulargrid, don't go to any other modular forums, don't go to any shops either online of in real life - don't communicate with other modular synthesists - these are all sources of gas

I'd want a lot more utilities - they make everything else go both further and different - probably another 100hp or so of them for that many voices - balanced rack = 30% utilties, 20% modulation sources - other 50% = sequencers, filters and vcos

EDITED Mar 5th 2021, 18:24

I always forget about comparators - I think the only ones I have are in the doepfer instrument interface and in disting...

I tend to use the doepfer - but i'm going to go and have a look what else is available

the seller didn't leave the power cable attached?? boo

usually there is a small mark on the pcb by the header

I would not guess up - down is much more common- hence red stripe down being a saying! - but if there is no markings I would either contact the seller or the manufacturer to confirm before plugging it in

EDITED Mar 5th 2021, 18:02

output modules are mostly superfluous - mostly attenuators or vcas or mixer output or nothing will work perfectly as final output

if you NEED balanced outputs then buy an output module that has balanced outputs

if you NEED headphones out of the modular - then buy a headphone module (ALM HPO for example)

to be honest I wouldn't worry too much about mono/stereo at the moment - most modules are mono (including the 2 you have)

however, if you still want a stereo output from your modular, then you will need a module that can take mono signals and either stereo-ize them (some fx modules will do this) or pan the mono signal into the stereo field (a panning module - or you could patch it using 2 vcas and probably maths)

a lot of 'stereo' mixers offer mono inputs that they copy to both L & R equally - so still mono, but from 2 speakers

there are also quite a few that have panning - either manual or voltage controlled

this is the way I thin I would go if I were you, but only after more important modules - such as vcas, modulation source, some basic utilties (kinks, links, shades - or equivalents) and at the very least a filter - probably also a reverb or delay

in fact I don't think I would bother with this until you are ready to add more voices

I would just add the maths and the vca and a way to play it - either via a keyboard, a sequencer or a midi interface - if the one you want is unavailable - just find something cheap/used that will do the job for now - and get the one you want when it is available and either sell the stopgap or keep it for backup / additional sequencing duties

and work my way through the maths illustrated manual a good few times - this will help massively in your learning - it will show you what functions you want - you then have to work out if you need to add a module to cover one or more of those functions or if you want to add another modulation source - a disting would also be a good way of doing this - but, unless you get the ex, has the same restrictions as maths - that it can only really do one thing at a time

for midi converters as with mixers go for one with more channels than you think you'll need - the chances are that you will need them at some point in the future - for a mixer (with built in vcas, manual panning and headphone outs) a really cost effective solution is the tesseract modular tex-mix which is expandable - you just buy a master module and as many 4 channel mono or stereo modules as you want - you can even get direct outs - which are post fader! this is what I use - most of the functionality of the WMD performance mixer, but for a lot less money - knobs instead of faders and no vc-panning - but big deal - I have 8 mono channels and 4 stereo channels for somewhere around 300€

I'd be shocked if there wasn't an incredible amount of completely illegal activity going on!

"Today my small discovery was..." is a great thread!!!

Thanks, I do try!

the thing is you often need more than you think - especially when you start to use them for modulation!

so maybe buy something cheaper or used - an older model veils - which is what I use - for example - or the tallin or doepfer

links kinks and shades ! if you have no other way of creating offset - or even if you do - it's really useful to have it as a separate module - I have maths but never use it as a mixer and rarely as an offset!

EDITED Mar 4th 2021, 09:13

I see a lot of these "beauty case" (using Dieter's term there) builds. They invariably fall into two camps:

I've been using it too - maybe i got it from Dieter too, but I think I just started spontaneously using it

(I'm also really liking "rack wart" for power modules - especially the arturia one)

Please don't encourage this trend.

-- Lugia

hear, hear!!!

I'm going to be a bit of an ass here - and extend it to what are your favourite threads about modular synthesis

my favourite thread is - "i was wrong (still am)" on muffs, especially the first post!

• https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=245154&p=3470332&hilit=i+was+wrong#p3470332

reading it should be a requirement for buying a first case/modules

synopsis - I read the advice of experienced modular synthesists, I ignored the advice, I now realise I was wrong (and still am)

I like threads where people ask for advice and actually take it - decide which modules you want, decide which you need to support them, now pick case dependent on requirements - leaving space for expansion etc etc

I dislike newbie threads where they have already bought a beauty case and want to cram too much in

I dislike threads where newbies complain about the price of modules and cases, as if they are fast moving consumer goods - they aren't - they are niche products - if you want cheaper go for less expensive brands (Doepfer, ladik etc etc) and not trendy expensive ones! - and build your cases (not that it saves that much)

cool - have fun - start saving for the next case!

it's a miracle...

look at logic modules, clock dividers and trigger combiners (switched multiples are also good for this!) then and/or things like grids and numeric/zularic repetitor

why????

it's a very limited overly constrained beauty case

not a bad collection of modules as a starter set - there's a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, something to it play with and a way to listen - but NO SPACE to expand into once you get bored (and you will do quickly)

also where are the vcas? hint they are in lots of ways the single most important modules/functions in a modular and there is only 1 in this rack embedded in plaits!!!!!

forget the horrifically expensive case and get a tiptop mantis or doepfer LC9 case and get the modules YOU want not what intellijel point you towards with their in built functions in the case

these cases are great for pulling a few modules from a significantly larger rack to focus on for a day or 2 - or make a video (see youtube & instagram influencers for reference) - but as starter cases, in my opinion and a lot of others, they absolutely suck!!

more research needed - much, much more!!!

silent way is an optional extra

in that case - a large matrix mixer (doepfer or nlc), kinks and another quad cascading vca would be a good start + the sampler and ensemble oscillator - maybe an fx aid xl

no adsr is fine - but maybe you could consider stages - lots of envelope possibilities and a few other useful functions!

I'd go for a small matrix mixer and kinks
or just get the new case - in preparation for the assimilator
then buy utilities...

2 music thing mikrophonies - what ears is based upon - and diy so you can hack at them as much as you'd like to get what you want

it's definitely one of the easiest ways - if there is more than enough i/o and you don't already have an audio interface and you have spare rack space then it's probably a good buy for you

I've heard of people not getting on with the doepfer midi module before - so I would swap that out - but I've no idea what for as I don't use midi to control my modular

if you need a dual adsr module there are much smaller, possibly cheaper, ones available - frequency central do a dual adsr in 8hp for example - or upgrade to stages - most people don't use full adsr in modular anyway - and get 2 * asr, or 2 * ad and some more functionality (that you don't have and could use such as sample and hold) - or one six stage envelope, for that matter - you only have a single vco and a drum

I'd rather have a filter and use the vca as output - yeah it'll probably be mono, but so what - fine for now!

I'd probably also want an fx unit of some sort - I like the fx aid xl - lots of options and a decent amount of modulation inputs

I'd next be looking to add some utilities - links, kinks and shades are all incredibly useful for not so much money/space - and make a great utility starter set

great advice, perhaps - but don't take them as set in stone! more vague guidelines! do what works for you in the long term...

copy and paste the url of your public rack into the thread

this will allow click through etc

I tried to do it for you but your only public rack is not the same as the jpg!

I'll have a look back later and comment once you have fixed the link..

Hi Nicholas

some thoughts that might help!!!

keep percussion out of the rack - ie use a drum machine

for a 9u 84hp consider 3 or 4 voices as a decent target - and in that size case I find it hard to justify more than 1 type of sequencing - pick midi-cv, a dc coupled audio interface (cv direct from computer, eg expert sleepers es8 or 9), a traditional sequencer (metropolis or the like) or generative (something like bloom or marbles) - if you must have more than 1 then consider 1 of them being outside the rack - a beatstep pro for example, or an sq1, or cv.ocd

in 252hp you have enough space to ignore small modules as much as possible and go for ergonomics over trying to cram stuff in

a single voice may be made up of some vcos - if more than one (or more than 1 output on a single vco) then a sub mixer will probably also be needed, some audio modifiers (filters, delays, reverbs, wavefolders etc etc) and the modulation and utility modules that are needed to support those modules

NB you can also get some modules that are complete voices - for example plaits can be used as a complete voice as it has an internal lpg (combination of vca and filter) or you can choose to bypass those and use external ones

then there are the modules that are needed to support these voices together - more mixers and other utility modules - possibly more effects - end of chain reverb is nice as a minimum to bring everything together

vcas are probably one of the most important types of utility module - get more than you think you need - make sure you have both linear and exponential (possibly in the same module) - linear is good for cv, exponential is good for audio - and audio can easily eat up 2 vcas per voice - one to open and close it and one to increase gain over time, perhaps - modulation can eat up a lot of vcas too - say you decide to use 2 modulation sources - you may want to modulate both of these modulation sources so that they do not happen all the time - another 2 vcas are needed for that - want to patch an auto-panner so that a mono signal is panned across the stereo field over time - mult the audio signal to 2 vcas (one outputs to L, one outputs to R) and use an lfo and an inversion of that lfo to open and close them - vcas can also be used with other utility modules to patch compressors

matrix mixers are a great way of expanding modulation sources - take mults of modulation sources and patch to modulation mixer, you now have 4 more related modulation sources (that can be mixed to your taste) - I'm in the use fewer modulation sources and more utilities to get more, complex modulation camp, as opposed to the more modulation sources and less utilities for the same thing camp - modulation and utility should take up about 50% of the rack (if you want a balanced rack imo)

a good starter set is - a sound source (a vco), a sound modifier (a filter or delay), a modulation source (I really like maths as a starter modulation source - as it is a great learning tool - see illustrated manual for more details), a way to play (see above) and a way to listen (I would use a quad cascading vca for this - and whatever adapter cables you need to take to the output from that to whatever you want to listen with - to a mixer, headphones, audio interface etc etc basically whatever you have already!) - and a basic starter set of utilities - I like links, kinks and shades as a relatively inexpensive and fully functional start - although any combination of modules with their functions will do nicely

I'd recommend starting slowly and then growing organically from there - ie some of what you want/some of what you need and only getting new modules after learning what you already have - experiment with and reesearch the modules you have and are thinking of buying - maybe a second filter before a second vco - because some filters can self-oscillate and so be used as a vco

after that I would look to adding a second voice (you can integrate one piece at time easily using mults and mixers)

at this point I strongly recommend getting a tuner - either on your phone or a guitar pedal or in rack - so that the 2 voices can be in tune with each other - instead of discordant - unless that is what you want - you may want this earlier if for example you are playing with other instruments - or have perfect pitch and find out of tune notes jarring

and then an end of chain mixer (possibly out of the rack) and some more effects - before adding any more sound generation options

I would also consider buying the book Patch and Tweak - as it is a good starting resource for learning about modular (and modules)

EDITED Feb 28th 2021, 13:56

1 what is your use case for an output module? most people do not need these - if you need balanced output or a headphone output - then get something that specifically does that - otherwise simple attenuators and adapter cables work perfectly in most cases - and are always a better starting point than an output module - worst case is you end up with an output module and some attneuators - which is no bad thing - attenuators are always useful

2 if you are intending to expand the number of voices - it may be an idea to look at either bloom or marbles instead of a turing machine - both have more channels and have built in quantizers - marbles also has a lot of gate features and a random source -all useful in a small system and this would mean you can put off a separate quantizer, potentially indefinitely - if you intend to use the mimetic digetalis to record tracks and replay them then the

3 I would go with veils or intellijel over the doepfer vca - because they are slightly less cramped and offer more features

4 I would start with a more fully featured modulation source - by that I really mean less cramped and more easily controllable - personally I recommend Maths as a good first modulation source - not only because it is a classic and is reasonably well laid out, but also because the unofficial illustrated manual elevates it to being one of the best documented modules and it is an excellent resource for learning about how modular synthesizers function and techniques such as patch programming - invaluable

5 I feel this system is quite unbalanced - way too much sequencing and not enough of everything else - I would start with 1 sequencing/modulation option - pnw or marbles - the bia - veils and then add maths and some sort of effect - either an anaolg filter or something like an fx aid xl and then the utilities that are needed to make the most of these modules - I always suggest links, kinks, shades as a good starter utility package - and then another voice - and then whichever of pnw or marbles I hadn't bought eearlier

6 if you have a more expanded 'dream' rack that this is a stepping stone towards - then I would share that as well - it may be that a better path is possible to it

7 don't buy modules just because they are cheap - or affordable - buy them because they are the modules that you need - if the quantizer that fits all your requirements is 2 times the price of the cheap quantizer that fits 80% of you requirements - then save for the more expensive one (or dig deeper in your pocket) - because you probably will end up with it down the line after getting frustrated because feature x is missing

Big question is, do I need to buy any patch cables to get any noise out of this “expensive waste of a rack”? I can’t seem to get any sound out of it by just racking and looking at them, trying to match black and silver and so worried about HP and the cool new version of clouds 😂. Thanks guys. Guess I have a new forum to mess around on.

-- Analogryan123

hahahahahahaha

what happens when you refresh the page after this happens?

I think I've had the same thing happen and refreshing hte page generally fixes the issue for me

Hi

good idea to get a big case - they are a lot more economical in the long term than the beauty cases so many people misguidedly seem to want to start with

yes the go case should be compatible with any eurorack module

you do however need to keep an eye on cumulative power draw - find the total power draw for your proposed modules by putting them in a rack here - mostly the power stats are ok

the draw should be at most 70-80% of the available power for each rail from thee pus- check this with in the manual for the case or online

this allows for incorrect stats and onrush issues - where some digital modules need much more power than advertised during their boot phase - but may not eliminate them altogether

as for first modules

Maths - it will add more modulation and envelop generation to the neutron and is an excellent learning tool for modular in general - see the illustrated manual, available online - 32 illustrated examples of patch programming it to do different useful functions in modular

a vco and filter - I like Doepfer or mutable instruments for these but if you want noisy then you may prefer Noise Engineering and Schlappi - pretty much anything can get noisy if you want it to!

a quad cascading vca - I specifically recommend veils for this role - especially if you want access to gain - also useful for modulation sources, external input and mixing

don't forget patch cables, maybe a good idea to pick up a few stackcables or headphone splitters for multing signals

exactly - worst case scenario is you need some utilities to get everything to play nicely together - you could even use a couple of mults or stackcables and do both!!!

I've not seen many nonlinearcircuits modules around - I built a triple sloths which i use a lot - a nice easy smd build iirc - did you build it or buy it?

don't listen to the newbie!!! he's only been around a year, apart from the part about listening to me, of course!!!

hahha

but seriously some good pointers there from sacguy71!

I don't have any harvestman/ime modules and probably never will have - listen before you buy (as with everything!!!)

Filters are good get these - more than you think you need, variety is the spice of life and you will get more variety from filters than analog vcos, for example - especially as a lot of filters can be oscillators too! but again - listen

the path to finding the sequencer that is for you can be a long and arduous one - and it may be a combination of modules not just one - I have a combination of about 6 or 7 (one of which I'm not keen on but will move to a different location to focus on it a bit more before thinking about getting rid of it) which together make up a complex sequencer - because they all do different things that I need in my sequencer! it's really down to the workflow you want and the functionality you need - not other peoples' workflow and needs

I think at least 25-30% of the rack should be utilities for it to become anywhere near balanced - a decent selection of different things and there is nothing wrong with duplicate - most of my vcas are the same and I have multiple shades for example

Mixers, there are so many too choose from! get a bigger one than you think you need for a final mixer - or an expandable one - I have a tesseract tex-mix 8 mono channels and 4 stereo - which cost less than half of the performance mixer - there are a few features missing, most of which I have anyway - or can patch easily - such as auto-panning if I want it - but it has the advantage that if I want to add an extra 4 channels then I can for relatively little and the direct outs are post-fader and inexpensive and have 1/4" as well as 1/8" jacks if you want that (although you do loose some channels using the 1/4")

ok cool - it's great to hear that!!!!

now stop seeing the 3 cases as separate instruments and see a single modular synthesizer - then combine sequencers!!! - I'd use the euclidian circles to clock nearly everything including the sequencers!

well I don't really class O&C or disting as utility modules - they are too complex - and you can only use one or 2 functions at a time - and for me neither is Maths really - I just see Maths as Maths (same any other DUSG descendant) - it can do multiple things - but I'd rather have all that functionality in individual modules - and always keep maths for it's own thing

they are great learning tools - especially disting, for working out what modules you need - as opposed to the ones you want - and Maths for learning patch programming techniques that are useful throughout modular synthesis (see the illustrated guide - it has 32 different patches for maths)

matrix mixers (doepfer or aisynthesis perhaps) , sequential switches (doepfer is hard to beat for a simple one), offset/attnuversion (shades or similar), utility mixers, sample and hold etc etc etc

mostly they are inexpensive and relatively small - compared to 'feature' modules which are often expensive and large -

basically all the different plumbing functions that are (effectively) hidden in fixed architecture synths - which is why newbies often forget about them - because they have never actually realised that they exist - these are the things that are used to multiply, modify and merge particularly modulation signals - they are the dull polish that make the shiny expensive modules actually shine - they are often also crucial in interfacing between modules that have different voltage requirements for i/o

a well balanced mature modular should be around 50% modulation sources and utility modules (including end of chain mixers, etc) - most of which should be utility modules imo - fewer modulation sources and more utilities will give more complex modulation options than a lot of modulation sources and fewer utilities - probably works out much cheaper too!!

@sacguy71

instead of chasing functionality of different sequencers - have you considered combining the sequencers you have into a complex sequencer?

NE post a weekly(?) question on instagram - recently it was what do you use for a sequencer?

my answer was - "pnw, sinfonion, marbles, bsp, zularic repetitor, branches, erica pico seq and stepfader - patched as a single multichannel sequencer"

I just took a look at your rack - the public one in your profile

it's not just vcas you need it's utilities in general - in fact I would go so far as to say it needs nothing but utilities and maybe another modulation source - even if you take the dfam out in the future - there are enough feature modules and voices

good luck with the hunt for a quad cascading vca... might be worth looking for a used one and/or try wigglehunt.com! I just looked there are a few originals about new and used - the older version of veils is a great module if you can spare thee extra 2 hp (which you can!)

there almost are always a few modules out of stock - it's just a bit worse at the moment...

Would you happen to have any advice on particular techniques for coaxing out some beautiful sounds from this beast? Here's some sounds I got from Paradox + Linneaus (seq, env, reverb via VCVrack)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLEcaCXXZsyFxDvDZ0YSTtEs9z3RD-FK/view?usp=sharing

-- Manbearpignick

modulate, modulate, modulate - modulate your modulation, mix your modulation, modify your modulation

and then just mess around... seems like you get the idea!

I'd try to find out if anyone else with beads, the 7u intellijel case and specific psu (I think there were 2 options, but not sure) has the same problems

those intellijel psus are quite decent but are noisier than some especially at very high frequencies - which some modules may pick up - they are not for example suitable for video work