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NP
if you can find veils get that instead of the intellijel... slightly smaller module and has more gain available + a couple of other features that make it marginally better than the intellijel imo

Hi,

Yeah i had not realized that with the erica sythns so am taking it out. I wanted a module to hook up mi DAW to the rack that would take on midi and convert that to use inside the rack.

I would be wary of the doepfer that you have replaced it with - most doepfer modules rock - but their midi modules don't

Also I have a beat step pro to use as standalone with the rack.

I added befaco because where i live i cant get the Maths.

do you live on the moon? make noise are slowly getting back to business - so if there is a make noise dealer anywhere on the continent you live on then you should be able to get one at some point - I'd suggest Maths too over the rampage - particularly because of the 'maths illustrated supplement' which is a fantastic primer for modular patching

be wary of any small 2-4hp modules - they can be particularly unergonomic and so frustrating to play with

do you really need an output module? chances are you don't, but it really depends on what you're intending on sending the output to...

I would suggest a good cascading vca module - either a triple (happy nerding 3*VCA) or quad (mutable instruments veils or intiellijel quad vca) as an investment for the future, that you need asap and almost definitely more than an output module or random or a 2hp mix... nb cascading means it will act as a mixer as well as x number of vcas

lo-fi, experimental, distorted and glitchy is kind of what Paul specializes in... I'd comment on the youtube video rather than here if I were you maybe he'll come up with something!

Bonjour titifoufou et beinvenue
si vous voudrais communiquer avec des autres sur le forum, c'est plus bon en anglais
si vous trouvez cela difficile, peut-être que google translate peut vous aider - juste comme ça
excusez-moi ma francais - c'est la francais de un garcon d'ecole anglais

shifty will not give you paraphony!!! it is a shift register - 1 cv and 1 gate in, for example, when the gate goes high and there are no notes in the system the note will be sent to output 1, when the gate goes high again the original note will be moved to output 2 and the new note (whatever is at the cv input) will be sent to output 1, when the gate goes high again the original note will be sent to output 3 etc

the last iteration looks better - I think it's a really good idea to ditch the paraphony at least in a 1st case - in order to reduce complexity - if you still want polyphony/paraphony then you may find a digital polyphonic keyboard works quite well alongside a modular

dtm (which you keep calling by it's old name before moog sued - cp3) is a mixer not a filter

I don't think it's a great idea to think in such rigid terms about what things do... rings has some great bass tones in it... and I'm sure those instruo modules can do some nice leads!

if you are going to use a keytep pro as your primary 'way to play' then you might find you don't need a midi->cv module...

I'd go slowly though and pick 4 or 5 of the modules that you think would play well together and get those to start with adn learn them inside out before getting anymore - you will probably change 30%+ of what you have here once you

yes midi->cv & make sure it specifies that it handles midi clock - some just do pitch and gate

mutant brain / ocd (external original version of mutant brain) and befaco midi thing may be worth looking at

I'm guessing you are intending to use the rample for percussion and then have 2 voices - the instruo oscs (as 1 voice) and the atom (which if it was me I would replace with a mutable rings - which would reduce the trimmers and improve ergonomics)

not sure I would want 3 identical oscillators either - I can see the point of 2, fat detuned bassline, but you could easily drop one and then fit in an effects unit such as fx aid xl (variety and ergonomics again!) whic would address your point 1

point 2: most eurorack modules are mono so I'd keep as much as possible mono until final mix stage and the dtm is a great little sub-mixer, as it can be overdriven easily to add a bit of grit - which might sit nicely with the instruo oscs - plus you need sub-mixers to mix the instruo oscs (if you are going to use them in a mono-voice anyway) before sending the signal to a filter) - I'd consider dumping the q-mix and replacing it with a wavefolder of some sort

point 3: personally I'd only need one s&h in this size case - I'd drop the divkid before kinks - the rectifier section is very useful!

point 4: I'd remove the ALA DVCA and the panning mixer and patch my own using a mutable veils instead - both panning and crossfading are easy to patch with cascading vcas!!!

I'd probably also replace the atom with mutable rings - better ergonomics and a bit smaller - not a big fan of the tall trimmers which you seem to have a lot of

this would free up a bit of space which I would keep free - you'll inevitably reach for a specific function at some point and not have it, so need a little space to add it in later

it is man, it is!!

I find it extremely welcoming and friendly - especially after 16 years in the lowlands...

you just have to realise that our default settings are sarcasm and taking the piss - often out of ourselves and our friends - and that no harm is meant ... you ought to start worrying if we don't, though!

EDITED Oct 17th 2021, 20:12

Maths is never going to be a bad choice - especially if you download and work through the (imo) number 1 learning resource in modular... the 'maths illustrated supplement' - I see Falistri and I see cramped and confusing - but some people seem to love it, each to their own..

not that I would describe either as utilities - they may include things that could be seen as utilities, but should be seen as their own thing and not 'utilities' as such

I always recommend a utility starter set (these are modules that are always going to be useful): links (perhaps not so useful in an effects rack), kinks (discontinued - buy if available, else substitute wmd/ssf toolbox), shades (or similar - multiples of this will be useful without links) and veils - or modules that cover these functionally - nb get a quad cascading vca such as veils or the intellijel version or the triple one from happy nerding - but read the specs and understand the differences before buying!!!

I'd look at the FX Aid XL as an additional effect and a matrix mixer (doepfer make a reasonably priced one) as being incredibly useful for setting up send/returns, mixing modulation sources to derive more interesting ones and creating feedback loops

You certainly have an interesting way of trying to help somebody out in a condescending sort of way..
-- happygolucky

well - not meant to be condescending - forthright perhaps, but not condescending... at least you find it interesting!

possibly to do with the fact that I'm in my 50s from the North West of England, have lived nearly a 3rd of my life in Europe and don't take shit from people, even if they are paying me.. and you aren't!

yeah - modular drums are expensive and you can probably get 80% of what you can with eurorack with a drumbrute at 10% of the cost

the 3/4 rule is quite widely known - and mentioned in a lot of newbie threads - 90% of the one's I've seen anyway!

probably not documented in manuals as they expect you to have done your research!!

the rule also applies to all rails - I think you may still have issues with the -ve rail - so don't be overly surprised if the uZeus craps out even with the more powerful brick - make sure you've set the jumper to the higher power on the -ve rail - but iirc the max draw on that is 500mA which you are really very close to already!

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 11:33

Well all my Mutable modules are either originals or DIY built by me, I've got Rings and Plaits and have a full size Elements in my DIY backlog - hopefully I'll get round to it sometime in the next 6 months or so!

So I really don't see a problem with having both Rings and a 2hp pluck - both have the 4 note polyphony going on - think of it like a rock band with 2 guitarists...

Nice! I love the idea of a DIY Plaits and Rings if I can find them… may I ask where you sourced them?

My Rings and Plaits are originals - they are in the really difficult levels of DIY mutable - you'll want to work your way up to them - if you haven't done any smd DIY yet I'd recommend starting with something a lot more DIY friendly (branches or shades for example or a nlc triple sloth or a nobots buffered mult) - generally you can buy pcbs and panels from pushermanproductions, amazingsynths or synthcube and the components from thonk (panel furniture) and mouser or whoever you usually buy your electronics components from - all the mutable modules are open-sourced on Emilie's github (pichonettes)

I think if you are going to get more than a couple of sound sources I'd be tempted to swap the turning machine out for something like Marbles (which is effectively 3 turing machines + grids)

Hmmm…. Interesting concept. I do have a soft spot for the diy nature of the Turing machine though…. It’s still on its way to me in Canada, so we’ll see how I get along with it and whether I want to expand on its concept and capabilities.

a matrix mixer is a phenomenal utility to add for deriving more interesting modulation cv from a limited number of sources - mult a few to it and mix them together to get another 4 modulation signals for example (or use it for send/return or feedback patching) - so versatile!

-- JimHowell1970

Hmmm… Well you learn something every day! Lol… I had kind of dismissed matrix mixers. But that comes from not really understanding their function. Looks like I have a new topic to research! Gosh this rabbit hole just keeps going deeper, doesn’t it? Ha ha!

absolutely deeper and deeper and deeper - I started with a 6u/72hp rack and I'm now about to hit about 1800hp of rack space! which I am hoping will last me through until the end of next year - unless I need a 2nd tiptop mantis for performing...

don't go anywhere near video though - hahaha - I did - see: https://www.instagram.com/jimhowell1970/ - but be warned it's another pill to swallow down that rabbit hole...

Definitely need to get some delay into my chain as well! I’ve been on a Pink Floyd kick the last few days, especially the Wish You Were Here, Meddle and Momentary Lapse of Reason albums…. Delay in boatloads and 2 guitarists!

Cheers!

== Aaron

-- aheath73

yeah delay and reverb go a long way - you might want to look at the happy nerding fx aid (xl) as you can get both with modulation and bit crushing in stereo (or use as dual mono) in a single module that way (plus there are over 100 different algos that you can load into the 32 slots)

pink floyd!!! I was just thinking what to listen to whilst doing the washing up... and now I know! thanks

Ummagumma it is!!!

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 11:52

Awesome! Thanks Jim…

No problem

Great points to consider:

• thanks for the suggested Maths guide

• I can totally see how a multi-algorithm module like Disting could be discouraging with TOO many options! I like the idea of a focused approach with a handful of functions at a time. That would be my plan - to eventually swap out features I like to a separate module… like you said, I have a bit of elbow room with the 12u, which is where I think I’ll end up at some point…

I've had mine for roughly 4 years and used it mostly as a tape delay - I finally broke down and bought a Magneto this year... and I still use it mainly as a tape delay - I love delays! but I do have a big-ish rack (1500hp - about to add another 336hp of space - but I like to keep a reasonable amount of blind panels in there too - probably 8% of the space - and I won't be filling the extra 336hp

• I agree with the genuine MI Rings point - the Tall Dog uClouds that I already have does feel a bit cramped with its mini pots…but it was a good deal at its’ used price - and it makes good sense to reward the creatives like Emilie! On a related note, do you think Rings and the 2HP Pluck are too similar to co-exist? I do like the sound of the 4-voice polyphony in the Pluck….

Well all my Mutable modules are either originals or DIY built by me, I've got Rings and Plaits and have a full size Elements in my DIY backlog - hopefully I'll get round to it sometime in the next 6 months or so!

So I really don't see a problem with having both Rings and a 2hp pluck - both have the 4 note polyphony going on - think of it like a rock band with 2 guitarists...

• your order of operations makes total sense… too easy to get hung up on the shiny sound modules! I love the idea of the Turing Machine and Maths for instance… so many bizarre routing possibilities, modulations and utilities are indeed the heartbeat of the system.

Thanks for the amazing food for thought so far…

Keep it coming… this is invaluable information!

== Aaron

-- aheath73

I think if you are going to get more than a couple of sound sources I'd be tempted to swap the turning machine out for something like Marbles (which is effectively 3 turing machines + grids)

a matrix mixer is a phenomenal utility to add for deriving more interesting modulation cv from a limited number of sources - mult a few to it and mix them together to get another 4 modulation signals for example (or use it for send/return or feedback patching) - so versatile!

I feel the same way about Maths… it’s multi-function and quite flexible in its’ routing options. I had planned for it to be next on my purchase list. I was torn on the Disting MK IV, but I think it will give me a ton of options to figure out what direction I would like to explore in a dedicated module.

Maths is brilliant - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' it is a great primer for patching in general and patch-programming in particular...

Disting is a great module - but take it slowly, set up favourites - which allows you to put 8 of the algorithms next to each other and restrict yourself to them for a month or 2 - if you find one that you gravitate to replace that algorithm with another and buy a dedicated module to cover the functionality in your rack - if you don't gel with any particular algo then swap some different ones in to the favourites - don't try to go through every algorithm to see if you like them - this often causes frustration and the thought that the manual will be constantly necessary...

After that? A Pam’s, some utilities, another voice option (2HP Pluck or a uRings clone - or another DIY VCO). I do love the soldering and assembly aspects, so I have to remember to keep that in mind…
-- aheath73

yes, yes, yes - but get a real rings, not a clone - ergonomics is important & you have the space - but more so I think Emilie deserves to be paid for designing the module and writing the code

try to aim for:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

it will give you a more balanced modular and the most options for the least money

saying that 5 or 6 sound sources is probably ok in 12u and note that some modules - Rings and filters that can self-oscillate, ro example, can count as both sound sources and sound modulators

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 09:55

Stackcables (and any other type of passive mult) are fine for anything but pitch - in 99% of all other cases a tiny bit of voltage droop will not be noticed!

the only exception to this is some modules expect to be plugged into a buffered input - I find Maths needs to go through a buffer to some modules, for example

This is true to some extent - however:

there is not really such thing as redundancy in modular - I have both and find that I use Rings in Easter Egg modes and Plaits in other modes often enough to warrant having a DIY Elements in my backlog - which I am hoping to get to before the end of the year! but then again I do have quite a decent sized modular - saying that I also like using both in similar modes at the same time

I would agree that a third sound source would be a good idea - something analog - personally I like the Doepfer Basic VCO and Buchla style oscillators

neither Rings nor Plaits is an oscillator - they are more self-contained voices, as neither needs a filter or vca after it!

Sorry for the lengthy reply in advance, but just wanted to respond to a few comments that I missed earlier.

You're getting a lot of advice, but you're the one who knows best what you want to do with your devices. Treat everything as potentially useful information rather than authority. And go slowly!
-- plragde

Of course. I'm just trying to get as much advice as possible so I can (hopefully) decide on a starter rack that is logical and help me on my journey.

good thinking!

Remember that OS 1.3 means your Digitakt can mix input from your modular, pan it dynamically, and apply its effects (and a similar Digitone update is considered likely). Both the Digitakt and the A&H can deal with Eurorack-level signals, but an output module is convenient.
-- plragde

Oh wow, I didn't know this! That's awesome. Out of curiosity - what would be the best way to do this without an output module? I've also got the A&H ZED60-FX mixer, so any recommendations there would be appreciated!

3.5mm->1/4" cables, turn everything down on the mixer and bring up slowly - you probably won't need any gain on the mixer

if it still clips then use passive attenuators - 2hp trim, for example - they are cheap small and can be set and forget once you get the levels right

The A&H mixer has 2 headphone sockets - why not just use 1 of them for now? you can add a headphone output in the future if you find you need it!
-- JimHowell1970

I always thought that was the whole point of output modules in eurorack, but seems like I've been wrong about that. As I've asked @plagde - what's the best way to connect it to my mixer/headphones without an output module?

they are kind of like medicine - you only need them if you need them - if you need balanced outputs then you'll need them - if you have noise on the output then they are worth trying - but only once you have tried attenuators - and unbalanced outputs are really just attenuators so if you are going to go for an output module buy balanced/isolated ones

I like FX Aid XL will make a great addition
-- JimHowell1970

I think I'm definitely going to get one of these. After watching a few videos it looks absolutely amazing!

the only way I'm going to get mine is if and when they offer the FX Aid XXL - there is talk of one with a screen etc, but that's a way off - and only then if I've bought the one with the screen and I can't live without it on my existing one!

a disting (mk4 or ex) would be a great addition
-- JimHowell1970

I've been doing a bit more research and can see now why a lot of people recommend the Disting MK4 and uO_c modules for a small rack like this. I'm considering adding a uO_c to the rack for quantizing the Digitalis and experimenting with its other uses, then maybe get a Disting after, as it seems like it's a good option to "test" out other functions to help plan future expansion. Do you think this is a good idea? I thought the Marbles and PNW already could already do quantizing, so am I missing something when everyone says the MD needs a quantizer?

Disting is great for auditioning different types of module - don't rush trying all the different algos - this is how people seem to get to hate them quickly - favourites are the way to go - if you find yourself using the same algo constantly replace that with a dedicated module and move on...

Marbles and PNW can both quantize their internal signals and apparantly external signals as well, but I've never used them for this - I have never used Mimetic Digitalis - but I just skim read the manual and it does not appear to have quantization functions - if you want it's outputs to be quantized, then it's probably better to quantize - there is no guarantee that what it records and plays back is pitch perfect - some voltage droop may be experienced I don't know... so if MD users are saying to get a quantizer, I'd be tempted to listen!

Saying that I almost always use a quantizer on the outputs of Marbles, when I use that for sequencing, but the quantizer I use is sinfonion - which also adds chord progression sequencing and an arpeggiator

Also would having the Salmple, PNW, uO_c and Disting be too much menu diving? I'm trying to avoid this but from what I've seen it doesn't seem too bad. Ideally I'd prefer 1 knob per function but can live with a little menu diving.

only you can answer that one - I don't own the squid salmple or O&C - but the menu systems on both PNW and Disting are not too bad...

Maths not required. If you want more plucky sounds you have a low pass gate built into plaits. From what I can see he likes using plaits to give chord drones. He is using md to drive the melody in the 0 coast.
-- greenfly

This is good to know, thank you. I'm thinking of getting a uO_c instead of the Maths and possibly a Disting MK4 after (as mentioned above). Assume this could open up a world of possibility and keep me busy in the meantime?

Maths is not required - correct, BUT I think it's the best module for learning modular synthesis there is due to the 'maths illustrated supplement'

it's important to note some people into modular synthesizers are not really into modular synthesis - they're only interested in connecting a few modules together to make some sounds - both are equally valid approaches - as is a middle ground!!!

I want to underscore what Lugia said about MD needing a quantizer
-- plragde

Yeah this seems to be the general consensus. But as I've asked above in this response. Doesn't the Marbles and PNW act as a quantizer also? And I'm guessing the uO_c or Disting is the solution to this? Seems like the Ladik Q-040 is hard to come by, so maybe I'd be better off with the former as I could also use it for envelope generation, etc?

see above

Ladik is only available from Ladik - they are easy to get hold of you just buy them direct!!!

3xVCA, if you can get it, is a fine bridge to Veils 2020
-- plragde

Good to know! I can't seem to find one for sale. Would the ALM Tangle Quartet work as another solution? Or are there any other alternatives you could recommend?

Intellijel quad vca? or just wait until the one you want (Veils 2020) is available - remember you can never have too many vcas!!!

Also I realised I didn't include any reference videos to the style of ambient that I'd like to make, so better late than never.

This is pretty much the exact style of ambient I am referring to. So Ideally I am trying to build a system that can do both styles of music like the original videos I posted, along with these ones. Am I on the right track with my current setup? I can't really see / am not familiar with the modules in the first video, so would like to know what recommendations everyone has with this in mind. Could the system Lugia proposed achieve this?

Almost any modular system can produce any type of music to some extent - it's an instrument like a guitar - the player is more important than the instrument - go slowly and you will get the right modular for you and your workflow

Thanks again to everyone for the super insightful and knowledgeable feedback. I will post a picture of my final starter rack once I've decided on my final shopping list in case anyone is interested. I feel like you all are invested in this journey with me now, ha :)
-- calmfarmer

don't post a picture - post a link to your public rack!!!

Well, Ronin1973, I did look it up,before I posted

https://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

But I might be wrong!

EDITED Oct 13th 2021, 22:37

Cables are not balanced because it is low impedance, they're balanced because the audio signal and the inverted phase copy sent on the 2 live wires can be recombined in such a way to cancel out any noise that has been picked up on the cable!

If you want high resonance with a bass sound. This might come into play.

just use 2 filters in parallel - 1 for high resonance and 1 for more bass!

Outputs. When dealing with a multi-mode filter, how are the outputs structures. Some modules put all the filter types on separate output jacks and all filters are simultaneously available. Others use only one output and the user selects (usually on a switch) which filter feeds the output.

and often somewhere in between - see Doepfer Wasp and SEM filters, for example!

Input (levels). Some filters have input level controls. How hard your signal hits the filter can alter the sound significantly. So an input level control might allow you to adjust things to your taste.

always a good thing - but an amplifier module (or a vca that actually amplifies instead of attenuating) in front will also do the job

Modulation. This can range from simple CV control over the cut-off point or you can get into modules with multiple controls including the afore mentioned FM control (linear and exponential), 1/V Octave tracking, CV over resonance, and even some exotic controls like ping, mix levels, even control over filter type.

-- Ronin1973

more modulation is always good!

I always just do this in my head - picking the modules I don't own - as they are fewer and farther between...

I do round up/down to the nearest 50 for simplicities sake

I sometimes forget that others aren't so good at mental arithmetic

The A&H mixer has 2 headphone sockets - why not just use 1 of them for now? you can add a headphone output in the future if you find you need it! but it is totally unnecessary right now, so I would skip the listen module, unless the a&h mixer is in one room and you intend to use the modular in another room

it will absolutely be enough to get going with and learn with...

Maths is great - as mentioned previously...

Stages is also a great option - I have both - in a case this size you will probably find yourself wanting both - and probably a matrix mixer and a load of stackcables to provide adequate modulation - as you have pams though and could use this for some heavily synced modulation I would recommend getting Maths and a matrix mixer before adding another modulation source ie Stages

Rings and Beads or Rings and another effects module - I like FX Aid XL will make a great addition in the (near) future - but I would wait amd play with what you have and work out what you are missing - it might not be what you think it is...

a disting (mk4 or ex) would be a great addition as you can audition lots of different types of module - especially useful for filling occasional gaps! but don't try to over learn it if you buy one - set up favourites and concentrate on just a few algorithms

well it's definitely an option...
personally I think that if you want a modular you are better just going straight to modular...
starting small is a very, very good idea - but that doesn't mean that the case has to reflect that - a slightly bigger case is always going to beat a tiny case economically - and experience points towards the fact that modular is fun and more modules are more fun - there's a reason they call it eurocrack!
saying that there are no wrong paths - just some are more expensive than others - buying used in particular will save money but only because if you realise that you are on the wrong path you'll have lost less if you come to sell it.. not that I've ever sold any modules - I just accumulate - that module that wasn't working for me 6 months ago does now as I have xyz module to plug into it, etc

and the inevitable second case etc etc
-- JimHowell1970

lol...i remember saying the Rackbrute 6U was where I would end...now my Rackbrute 3U will be on the way soon.

-- jb61264

I know the feeling... I thought I'd be done with a 6u/72hp case, then I wanted Maths - so bought a mantis, then I discovered video synthesis and DIY... now at 1500hp ish - and soon to add another 12u/84hp just need some holes drilling!

depends - if you have a mixer, possibly not - otherwise you may want to check out the ALM HPO - which is just a headphone output
-- JimHowell1970

I've got an Allen & Heath ZED-16 FX mixer lying around that I could use. Would that work or would I still need the output module? Also I think this mixer is a bit overkill for my setup. Would you happen to know any other mixers as a replacement for the Eurorack, 0-Coast and DT/DN?

I'd keep and use the mixer you have - if you have the space for it - especially as it has effects and headphones and will cope with eurorack and 0-coast and dt/dn + room for expansion

you almost definitely don't need the output module, but it's a bit try it and see - might need some attenuators - but passive ones of these are inexpensive and can be small, 2hp trim, for example and always useful - I use one of these either side of my Clouds for attenuating modulation!

BTW I'm Agawell on Reddit - so we have a conversation going there too!!
-- JimHowell1970

Ha, I've been caught out! Good to know and thanks for all your help so far, I really appreciate it. These threads have been amazing so far!

-- charliechunk

NP

depends - if you have a mixer, possibly not - otherwise you may want to check out the ALM HPO - which is just a headphone output

I often run a external laptop speaker from a headphone output for monitoring purposes as well as headphones - but both my headphone outputs are mixer based... (rebel technology mix02 and tesseract modular tex-mix)

BTW I'm Agawell on Reddit - so we have a conversation going there too!!

EDITED Oct 12th 2021, 10:44

I heard that Catalyst were going to restart manufacture and add a few more modules - but when that will be is anyone's guess!

places to look for used modules - modwiggler, here and facebook

there's also wigglehunt - which is an aggregator for shops + reverb - but misses a few I think

you may or may not need an output module... I don't need one for example (UK and don't play gigs - where a balanced output may be an advantage)

if you're going into a mixer or audio interface I would try passive attenuators 1st, before spending money on an output module!

EDITED Oct 12th 2021, 10:12

Oh, I forgot to mention - my budget will also need to include the case, which will be the Tiptop Mantis (AUD$580) if that helps :)
-- charliechunk

not really - you don't have to fill the case at one go - get some blind panels - if you are pushed for cash use cereal packet cardboard - then add more modules as and when you can afford it - and the inevitable second case etc etc

If you simply want sync, you can get the MIDI expander for Pam's New Workout.
-- Ronin1973

The Digitakt and Digitone can output DIN Sync, so you just need the $10 cable from ALM to get clock/run into PNW. If you want to sequence your modular from the Elektron boxes, you'll need MIDI to CV (the 0-coast has some capability, though it is a nuisance to use). If you want to go the other way (say, to get Euclidean rhythms driving the Digitakt), you'll want something with CV->MIDI capabilities, for which there are fewer options (but some exist).

befaco cv thing is a good example of this type of module

I'm pretty new to this, but I don't think you should base your rack on a video made by someone for whom this is just a fraction of their collection.

this is really good advice - at least some, if not all, of the youtubers who demo tiny systems are pulling modules out of much larger racks specifically for demo purposes

Also consider availability of modules. I don't know where to get the Veils 2020 at this point in time. Since your 0-coast is already on the way, I say give that a month while you learn how to use it by itself and with what you have. I bet that changes your mind on some things.

-- plragde

how to find modules (not all dealers are on there, but a lot are):
https://wigglehunt.com/?query=veils&condition=&stock_status=in_&price_min=0&price_max=5000¤cy_code=150&sort=price

use 2 mono 1/4" - 3/5mm cables L->L/R->R this will give you stereo

stereo cables are only used when a single output and input specifically state stereo

pro gear does not do this

most eurorack is pro gear

I'd also try bypassing the ciao! unless you have a compelling reason to use it - does it have a compressor in it? i can't remember

If you simply want sync, you can get the MIDI expander for Pam's New Workout.

I use a kick on an audio channel to sync from DAW - much better timing as audio is much higher priority in computer OSs

O&C has other functions as well, so it'll be very handy.

but can only do 1 or 2 things at a time - if you need that many quantizer channels I'd look to the sinfonion - then you can do chords too!!!

Your rack has no LFOs, no dedicated envelope generators, no utility mixers, no basic utilities (like attenuverters, noise). You'll find the boring utilities are the glue that really holds your modular system together.

modular synthesizers that don't have utilities end up unloved in cupboards or for sale once the user gets bored of them

Also a small multi-effects unit can make a real difference. You may want to try an Expert Sleepers Disting EX if there's room. It's a Swiss Army Knife of functionality and will help you explore the possibilities of modular synths.

-- Ronin1973

Distings are great - also consider the happy nerding fx aid (xl) if you want a lot of variety

hahahahaha - if you think anything in modular is a waste of money, I'd suggest walking away now

everyone I've come across who started like this (tiny case) has come to 'regret it' within 3-6 months - as they end up buying another case and then another and another

buy a decent sized case to start with (the ones you mentioned are very good) and you are less likely to get into the hobby of buying eurorack cases - I made the mistake of buying a 6u/72hp case to start with - and 5 year later have 1500hp... may have stopped at a mantis, if I'd bought that to start with

if you want to save money - build one - it's easy - a couple of bits of wood and a power supply, but not a uZeus as they need a heat sink... I like the befaco excalibus for DIY cases

here's the link to the actual rack (not a jpg which is next to useless)

dump the 2 functions and the shifty

add 2 * fx aid xl, stages and a basic starter set of utilities - links, kinks (discontinued - buy it if you can find it - substitute: wmd/ssf toolbox) and shades - consider a matrix mixer

download 'maths illustrated supplement', play until you start to reach for something you don't have and then add that - repeat until death

Haha I wouldn't say "happy" is the right word :)

well don't buy modules that don't make you happy - wait a while and find the ones that do and buy them instead!!!

Doh! Sorry about the link! I thought the JPG might be easier since I messed up the rack link last time. Here's the MG link:

That's mostly me just playing around with patching and trying to think about where I might want to take things. It's not what I would start with.

that's better - it really helps us help you to see the actual rack - remember there's over 9k of eurorack modules these days - no one knows all of them...

Fair point about Maths too. I took another look at it this morning and it does pack a ton into a single module with a lot of flexibility. Solves my "I need more LFOs, oh except when I need an envelope, oh except I really need a VCA/mixer..." problem in one module, plus other crazy things. I intentionally opted not to change the layout in the link above but I think I'll mess around with what maths can replace in a copy of the above and go from there. It looks like there might be an emulation or something similar enough to Maths in VCV that might help me "get it" a bit more.

Also turns out, duh, I was just reading the manual! I thought that's what you meant but the supplement, and duh, I feel silly now. I found the actual one and yes, that helps A LOT!

hahaha - the manual is good - but the illustrated supplement is BETTER

Thanks again Jim! You've been really helpful along my newbie modular journey!
-- m00dawg

it's a pleasure to help - especially when it's so well appreciated!

Thanks @GarfieldModular. Sinofonion is one I've stayed away from for a few reasons. But I wasn't aware of the chaotic detune function on that. I'll take a closer look.
-- nickgreenberg

the sinfonion is a fantastic module, but to make the most of it you 4 or 5 sequencer channels, split over 2 sequencers modules - unless you can find a single sequencer with the ability to clock the channels separately, and a quite a few voices etc

Please post a link to the actual public rack (the url) and NOT a jpg... help us help you!!!

If you are happy giving your money to the b-company, then go ahead...

the biggest problem with buying something like the neutron is that you don't get to choose exactly what you want and if you want to swap say the filter for something else, then you can't just pull the filter and replace it as easily

as for Maths - I would go for it now - I didn't buy Maths to start with and it took me about 6-7 months to get round to buying it, but I wish I'd bought it in the first group of modules I bought - and worked my way through the 'maths illustrated supplement' a good few times - as it's the best learning resource for patching, especially thinking about patching, there is

@nickgreenberg I agree +1000

I am really sorry for making statements out of lack of knowledge if it is the case. But, I have to make things clear, there is people like me, who doesn't care who makes the product. if kids are dying in the making process I don't care. They are no my children, and most likely I won't care either way.

Unfortunately, yes, there are many more people like you who have so little self-respect that they don't care who they give their hard earned cash to

If the quality of the products or the customer service is questionable is important to me, that is the things I want to know and I appreciate it a lot. That is why I like this forum. I agree with it; but if the owner or some employee of certain companies are rapist or killers in their personal live, I don't care. I am not a hypocrite, I don't feel for them, so I won't simulate it.
-- Hikove

I'd also note that in general the quality of products and customer service from these companies is also poor - not going to cite anything - googling will find examples in minutes

I don't plan on expanding forever...
-- JimHowell1970

Hm. Yeah. Right. We all know you're just as hooked as the rest of us.

-- Lugia

ok ok I plan on significantly slowing down expansion... says he seriously considering spending another £1800 on 4 more modules and some DIY stuff (including another new power supply) and with a chromagnon still on pre-order! but after that it may just be some of those tiptop/buchla modules - but will need to get a job before that!

I've got rings, plaits, both tides, clouds, streams, stages, branches, links, kinks, Marbles, an original veils, 2 diy veils, 3 diy shades, 2 diy shelves, 2 diy ripples and a few more diy ones in the backlog including elements, frames and a second branches

they are incredibly versatile modules - I've had everything from ambient bells, through heavy metal guitars, to organs from Rings alone - it's really quite impressive what you can do with them - and Emilie is fantastic - excellent customer support!!!

The O&C isn't that menu-divey. Once you've selected a mode of operation, everything for that mode is on one page. The length of the menu might expand if you select certain features (like using a ADSR envelope rathe than a gate). But it's fairly simple to use.

neither are turing machines or distings

turing machine is pretty simple generate a string of random stepped voltages that are loopable - you almost always want a quantizer after it if you want 'musical'

disting is also quite simple - there's just a lot of it - it's just select algorithm and the knobs and i/o change but nto that much and it's pretty easy to get your head around especially if you set up favourites (a text file on an sd card) so that you are not trying every mode and having to read the manual all the time

As far as the turing machine, having a module that can send control voltage (like a Befaco Attenuverter or an Intellijel Quadratt) are nice for having better real time control of the Turing settings.

-- Ronin1973

@Ronin1973 hnmm - something wrong here did you mean scale and not send?

It's a good reminder too that I haven't at all been considering the price of patch cables (namely due to needing more than I thought I would) ;)
-- m00dawg

yeah, I know the feeling - I'm at about 300 or so and probably need more soon!

-- JimHowell1970

Honestly, once you get on up into the hundreds of patch cords, it starts to make more sense to just get a spool of Belden 8441 (three conductor with foil shielding) and a pile of Switchcraft 250s, then whip out the ol' soldering iron. That way, you can do patchcords of whatever length you need. True, it's tedious AF, but you get a superior patch cord (that foil makes a definite difference in keeping crap off of your signals) AND you pump up your soldering game. Same trick applies for 3.5mm cords as well, although you might be better going with Belden 9396 for those and, of course, the right 3.5mm connector...in this case, I recommend CUI Devices MP-3502s for the plugs.

-- Lugia

I would if i thought I'd need a ton more - but I probably don't, maybe another 50 or so will keep me going for ever... and not all at once - maybe 20 more this year and some more next year...

I don't plan on expanding forever - maybe 3-4 modules (plus some diy as needed) this year and some of that tiptop/buchla (and maybe a couple of video modules) next year - and I'll probably be near as damn it done... maybe some more DIY modules and anything that seriously catches my eyes or ears - but tbh, not a lot really does... thankfully!

Thanks Jim!

No problem

It's a good reminder too that I haven't at all been considering the price of patch cables (namely due to needing more than I thought I would) ;)
-- m00dawg

yeah, I know the feeling - I'm at about 300 or so and probably need more soon!

EDITED Oct 8th 2021, 00:07

one of mine used to have - "this half-assed excuse for a case contains electronics designed to destroy elitist control mechanisms" written on it in sharpie! it was a piece of skirting board sawn into 4 and held together by modules and blind panels (hence the half-assed) - the wood has been recycled into one of my current cases, cut down to size and the text on the inside... now only 3/4-assed as it has proper rails and a back, but is still pretty much unfinished skirting board at heart!

great - have fun!!!

get a mantis (6u/104hp) if you can, or a doepfer lc9 - these are the best bang for buck cases (hp/cost) that you can get and both have decent power supplies that have been around for quite a while

vcas are incredibly useful for both audio and modulation purposes - I think it's a great idea to have a play with them in vcvrack

I'd take veils over the intellijel quad - slightly smaller for starters

personally I'd recommend a Make Noise Maths over the b-company dual envelope/lfo - especially to a newbie - as it has possoibly the greatest modular learning resource - the 'maths illustrated supplement' dedicated to it - download the pdf and read through it a few times, ven if you don't buy the module, but it might inspire you to get the module, if you know what I mean...

good luck and have fun!

Yeah Lugia I think they're pretty much identical although not bananas... most advice I've seen for them though is to only stack 2 high - a chain works just as well as a star, but less mechanical strain on the sockets and on the stackcables... I don't think it hurts to stack 3, but I wouldn't want to go further...

nothing about this screams generative to me - how are you expecting to generate random sequences? and modify them over time?

thumbnail and link don't match - you should try refreshing the rack and re-pasting the url

I'd question the number of 2hp modules when there is no need for such miniaturization!

even in a small case such as this (get a bigger one - you'll want/need it eventually - mantis/doepfer lc9 etc) there is so much space for these few modules - also in terms of midi interface - getting a bigger one, with more channels is a better way to go - as the modular grows it will stop you from buying another and another, if you plan ahead a bit - same with mixer

you might want to get some lfos - for modulation purposes - probably want vcas too (veils or intellijel quad or the happy nerding one are all good ideas)

is it really that big a deal if L & R are different sounding - to some extent it's a good idea - and it could become a sort of signature for your work - processing stereo through discrete but similar modules can be significantly more interesting than through a matched pair - will sum to mono better too...