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don't do friends and family if they are not friend or family - pay the fees, get the protection

with an external drum machine you might want to go with pedals for the distortion/fuzz/overdrive and the compression (to free more space in the rack) and a continuously variable filter - so that you can go from low-pass to high pass and all places in between
-- JimHowell1970

Can you expand on this a little? I am using the TR-8S for drums...will eventually go down the stomp box 'path' as I purchased Bastl Hendrikson a few weeks ago for my Minibrute2/Rackbrute3U setup...but it sounds like using them in line with the TR-8S can also add some flavor to the drums?

-- jb61264

yeah - some pedals in line with the drums - specifically a gain pedal (which will add some compression) and a compessor can add to the drum machine without taking up valuable rack space - and pedals can often be had cheaper than modules (bigger market for them - both new and used) then feed that in to the rack (I'd use a veils - most vcas don't have gain - veils has 20dB there on tap - so can again add more grit at this stage if needed) and then go through a filter in rack - maybe a doepfer SEM or WASP - both of which can go from low pass to high pass on the turn of a knob - this would make an interesting processing chain for a drum machine to me - possibly with parallel processing at some point either before the chain - an ABY pedal is a great solution here - so you can switch between the processed drums and the unprocessed (or differently processed) drums - this is especially useful as distortion pedals have a tendency to loose low-end - so maybe take this into account when choosing a distortion pedal - maybe something specifically designed for bass processing

the hendrickson is a great idea for sending stuff from the rack into an effects pedal chain and then back in - especially things like delays and reverbs can be used so much earlier in the chain than usually and then brought back in - possibly for further processing - filtering for example

an envelope follower (or 4) is also really handy to have at this point - as are more vcas

I think you'll be wanting to expand the 3u to a 6u soon - try to keep the 3U - if you can - always good to have space to expand into!!!

with an external drum machine you might want to go with pedals for the distortion/fuzz/overdrive and the compression (to free more space in the rack) and a continuously variable filter - so that you can go from low-pass to high pass and all places in between

I think the Mantis is probably the best "starter case" at present. It has loads of current reserve from a tried and true P/S design (taken from the uZeus), it's portable while having ample module space, and it's got a really snazzy method for adding a second Mantis. Tiptop even offers a gig bag sized for it.
-- Lugia

I think the mantis power supply is based on the tiptop zeus studio bus - not the uZeus - from what I heard the uZeus can be quite noisy - and the mantis is really quiet - no ripple up to video rates (MHz) as opposed to mere KHz for audio

EDITED Dec 26th 2021, 22:48

I did want to ask though as I'm very new to hardware modular, what are some things to keep in mind about balancing utilities with other modules? (filters, E.G's, Sound Sources etc)
-- pestilent

loosely:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities = most variety for money and works well as a 'rule of thumb'

loosely because a sound source might be 2-3 vcos, a sound modifier might also be a sound source, maths might be seen as both a modulation source and a utility etc etc

I tend to see maths as a complex modulation source - if you want the utilities it has I'd advise to buy them separately

I'd be pushed to have much more than 1 sound source per row and support it properly though

the 4i4 is about as small an interface as I would ever recommend anyone to buy

this is due to the 4 outputs - 2 for monitors 2 for sending audio out to process and re-record - any smaller and you can't do this unless you don't want to listen to what you are doing - which makes life very difficult imo

-- JimHowell1970

Out of curiosity, does anyone use headphones out of their AI?

I almost exclusively use monitors for mixing, but curious if studio headphones are ok for just playing around?
-- cj18

Not currently as I use an es8 as an audio interface (no headphone output) - but in the past I have - there is absolutely no need for monitors unless "mixing", even then arguably without acoustic room treatment, headphones may be better, depending on the headphones!

for "just playing around" I have used all sorts - laptop speakers, headphones, tiny rechargeable speakers and monitors

currently I use a tesseract tex-mix for mixing the output of which goes to an external mixer (an old yamaha mg10) and from there to either headphones or a pair of yamaha monitors (might be msp8s)

NB headphones won't help with the less than 4 channels problem - headphone outs are usually copies of channels 1 & 2, so you wouldn't be able to listen to the mix on headphones and use outputs 1 & 2 for external processing

well it saves attenuating the random and noise outputs - it's modular - try inserting a module that can amplify signals - veils for example NB most vcas won't do this only ones that have gain higher than 1

great advice from @plragde!!!!

the 4i4 is about as small an interface as I would ever recommend anyone to buy

this is due to the 4 outputs - 2 for monitors 2 for sending audio out to process and re-record - any smaller and you can't do this unless you don't want to listen to what you are doing - which makes life very difficult imo

in fact mostly I recommend buy the biggest one you can afford with more i/o than you think you'll ever need - really annoying if you run out of interface channels - same with mixers!

just to reiterate, try with nothing, if that fails buy passive attenuators (eg 2hp trim - cheap and always useful), if that fails buy a balanced audio out module - if your interface has balanced inputs!

looks quite small to me

I would be surprised if the size of it is causing your creativity issues

I would add more utilities

paypal

One final question: do I need to do anything special to get my sound out?

maybe

turn everything down as much as you can on the modular and plug it into the audio interface with one or more normal (not floating ring) 1/8"->1/4" cable(s)

if there is an input gain control on the audio interface then turn that down 1st a well and then increase the gain until you can hear the audio

if there is clipping - unwanted distortion - then the 1st thing to try is a passive attenuator on each channel - these are inexpensive and almost always useful - 2hp trim is an example module

if there is still unwanted noise - then you may want a balanced output module - but that really depends on your interface and whether or not it expects balanced inputs

I have a floating ring CV patch cable that ends in a jack that will fit my audio interface. As far as I can tell, that should be enough as long as I don't do anything stupid with the gain on the AI. Please correct me if I am wrong...

floating ring CV patch cables are not meant for audio (hence the "CV" in the name!)

My Arturia has a CV out on it, so I am 99% sure I can go directly from it to the modular. Again, let me know if I am wrong.

you can send cv from the arturia to the modular using the cv out

don't worry too much about plugging the power in - iirc uZeus comes with a flying busboard on which the headers are keyed - mostly power cables are the right way round - out of 60 or so bought modules only 1 was incorrect and that was an old doepfer module - with a non-standard power cable (power header on multiple pcbs)

but it's still a great idea to know how to check power cables

on modules that don't have keyed headers they should be marked with a stripe or -12v - this corresponds to the red stripe on a correctly made power cable

if the headers are keyed then the power cable should just plug in one way

power cables should be red stripe match up to a small triangle to the left of the key on the connector

NB some modules/power cables don't work like this but they are the exception and I don't think any of the modules that you have are in this group

re: swiss army knife modules - another one is fx aid (xl) - igor keeps adding more and more algorithms - there are over a hundred, of which 32 can be loaded at any one time - including - reverbs, delays, filters, drum sounds etc

d'y not think the eloquencer and black sequencer in such as small case is a bit of overkill?

good news Lugia!!!

read a lot (30+) newbie threads - take the advice that always stands out

read the stickies at the top of the modwiggler eurorack forum

try to work out what you want the modular for

get a bigger case

read my signature
-- JimHowell1970

Yeah !
That's why I put utility modules. (logic, buff mult etc...)
I will still read.

I still believe I can do something good with this little case. :)

Thanks.

-- 202kwam

I spent a lot of time over about 18 months reading and watching videos before spending a penny on eurorack gear 5 years or so ago - some people seem to think they have done a lot of reading in 30 mins over a weekend - I guess it's really down to attention span - mine is much worse now than it was then

ok let's start with buffered mult - as the case is so small i would not try to cram 2 'voices' in there - so a buffered mult is superfluous, as they are only really needed for v/oct (ie pitch) signals - a bit of voltage droop on audio or any cv that is not v/oct will be unnoticeable - and passive mults in a case this size just take up valuable hp - get stackcables or other forms of passive external splitting - like headphone splitter

belief is sometimes good - but often flawed

I believe you may be able to get something good out of a case this size, but I don't necessarily think you will be able to get lots of somethings good out of it - do yourself a massive favour and get something at least twice the size to start off with there is no need whatsoever to fill it this week/month/year- much better to start bigger with space to expand as you learn what the fuck you are doing rather than having to buy a second case in 3-6 months (which is way more expensive than buying a sensibly sized one to start with) and then once you know exactly what you are doing go smaller if you still feel the need to only use a beauty case for whatever reason - mostly it seems to be "because it fits in my handbag" - almost all those youtube influencers are pulling modules out of much bigger cases to highlight specific patches that they have worked out over years of practice - starting with a too small case adds artificial contraint and forces you into a specific workflow, which is highly unlikely to be your workflow

yes to both - anything can be done with modular as long as you are prepared to pay for it - and probably more than if you found a stand alone box that can do it... but it may be more satisfying, a better workflow for you, more fun, more interesting etc things that are worth paying for perhaps!?!?!?!

it's more about the user and how they 'play' the instrument than the instrument though

1. there are many ways to create polyphonic/paraphonic chords with modules - the trickiest part is sequencing them - personally I don't like the idea of sequencing root notes and sequencing the gender and degree of the chord - there are plenty of modules that do this , instruo harmonaig, qu-bit chord etc - I prefer to sequence every note - I use an acl sinfonion for this which allows me to sequence a chord progression and has multiple quantizers and an arpeggiator to keep everything else in key with the chord progression which other modules will not do for you, but it is expensive and quite big - you'll also need either a lot of voices (4-8 oscillators is probably a good starting point for a pad, plus filters and support modules - doepfer has a load of polyphonic modules designed for just this, wavefonix may also be worth looking at, if you want analog) or a digital module that is specifically designed to output chords, or can do it as a feature - maybe 4ms ensemble oscillator - there are almost definitely others - I tend to use a expert sleepers general cv for this and then process the output through delay and reverb

2. sequence a bassline - take a square wave output from whatever oscilllator you are using for the bass and send it through a clock divider - /2 = -1 octave, /4 = -2 octaves, use multiples of this slightly detuned, mix them, filter and distort them - there are also modules that will output sub-octaves - probably want to mix in the filtered and distorted original basslines so that they get some slightly higher frequency content so that people listening on phones, laptops etc can get an idea of what you are aiming for rather than creating music that can only be reproduced with a sub-woofer

Fingers crossed Lugia - our thoughts are with you!!!
Get Well Soon!!!

read a lot (30+) newbie threads - take the advice that always stands out

read the stickies at the top of the modwiggler eurorack forum

try to work out what you want the modular for

get a bigger case

read my signature

Well - I'll recommend the bigger case anyway - get a Mantis - it's probably about 3" bigger, possibly cheaper and means that you can add the modules you want not what intellijel pushes you towards in terms of midi and output modules - plus it's still very ,very portable (unless you are a small child), almost definitely has better power and just as importantly gets rid of the 1u row - there is nothing compelling in 1u that can't be done in 3u in 1/4 of the hp!!!

other point and possibly the one that you should pay more attention to - why the disting mk2??? get a mk4!!!! same size and more possibilities - also actually available new

All computer operating systems prioritize audio over virtually everything else including midi - want a solid clock from a computer - use an audio click track

This is because most users will notice and complain if replaying audio is jittery - in reality very few computer users actually use midi

-- JimHowell1970

What is an audio click track? Would this be for example in Ableton using CV Clock Out (CV tools in Ableton) as the clock source?

-- jb61264

a sample of a kick drum, for example on every 16th note on an audio track - this is what I use from Logic - works perfectly no jitter

big thanks to both of you 😊

-- Dub007

for case parts and module kits (including the excalibus) - exploding-shed.com is really worth checking

if you do get a excalibus then you'll need a rug wart - basically a laptop power supply - you should be able to find one that will work perfectly online for 20€ or so

Hope this covid crap ends soon.
-- sacguy71

highly unlikely until everyone worldwide is properly vaccinated, unfortunately... which isn't going to happen soon, for a number of reasons

Side note...I don’t know about you guys but I’ve always had issues with midi clock when using Ableton with hardware synths and drum machines. One thing I can say for sure which I was totally taken aback from is that using Pams as the master (ext) clock is solid AF! After all these years trying to get all that midi synced, offsetting nightmares in Ableton’s MIDI settings, or even using track delays to get audio or MIDI to line up, again, PAMS is seriously solid! I have the modular on a stereo channel, Digitakt using overbridge, and Maschine all running rock solid now...finally. I hope that may help you guys in return and those out there who have these nightmares too.

Thanks again for you help peeps, much appreciated 🖖🏼🙏🏼
-- HybridWaveform

All computer operating systems prioritize audio over virtually everything else including midi - want a solid clock from a computer - use an audio click track

This is because most users will notice and complain if replaying audio is jittery - in reality very few computer users actually use midi

and unsurprisingly me too...
-- JimHowell1970

Not surprising. I based that signal flow partly on the ARP 2600's design. It's somewhat different, but that flow is very much part of what makes IT easy to work with.

-- Lugia

exactly!

whilst the mantis is a brilliant case and really quite reasonably priced, especially compared to other cases that were around when (and since) it was launched, building a case is a great idea and can save a little money - if you can use a saw, a drill and a screw driver then they are, at their most basic, incredibly easy to build - I should know I've built 4, so far! my average build time is a couple of hours, so I wouldn't really call it a project, as such, but then I don't really bother sanding, staining or varnishing etc

88 & 114 hp are weird sizes - ie not standard rails sizes are you going to use wood rails? - I've tried this and personally I wouldn't advise it - when using aluminium rails (and preferably threaded inserts - seriously much better than sliding nuts) it's much easier to stick to standard sizes!!

what power supplies are you considering - I like the befaco excalibus, myself - it's an easy but tedious DIY build and provides a decent amount of very clean power (clean enough for video which needs to be cleaner through much higher frequencies than audio - otherwise it is visible in the output)

as for 1u - as you are building your case yourself, you will come to appreciate that the cost of housing 1u modules in a row is identical to that of a 3u row - and there's really nothing compelling in 1u that can't be achieved with a 3u module, in a much smaller hp footprint, the only thing that 1u really does is save you 3.5" (8.9cm) from the height of the case

as you have more space - I would suggest getting rid of the micro versions of modules - their ergonomics sucks!

as you seem to be into open source, I would also suggest either to build yourself or to support the person who made them open source in the first place and not cloners, where possible (hint buy plaits, not knit)

Emilie is a truly fantastic person and deserves your money, way more than anyone who shrinks one of her modules to child size and I can assure you any product support that you do need will be excellent

almost all eurorack manufacturers are very small - other than the obvious evil that is the b-company I don't think many are more than 10 people:

Doepfer, outside Munich, is 4 - & Dieter "invented" the format
Mutable Instruments, Paris, is 1

for example (nb both of these outsource their production - Doepfer to China, iirc, and Mutable to a company in France

what are you currently using for mixing your existing instruments? you may not need the output module - if you desperately need headphones then I'd suggest something like the ALM HPO - which is made, kind of locally to the EU, in the UK

I'd probably also go for a fx aid xl instead of the milky way - Igor adds more and more algorithms to it - so it's significantly more versatile than the milky way - whilst being built on the same platform

I'd probably replace the pico filters, for the mostly same reason as the knit - poor ergonomics, better suited to children than adults - with Doepfer modules that are bigger and have more space - I have a pico seq - which is kind of annoying for this reason and also the lack of a reset jack (resetting is horrible and really requires space around the module to achieve) - I have other full size erica modules, both DIY and bought, and they are excellent

I'd add a matrix mixer, fx aid xl and something that can do offsets and inversion (3*MIA, perhaps) [...] - I have multiple problems with the frap tools modules, but that's just me - although I'm sure they are great... I think bresno is way too big for a case this size - as there's not enough room left over for modules to support it - add another row, though and it'd be substantially better

-- JimHowell1970

Hey Jim, big thanks for the case update, that's really helpful, especially as I can see it in action with your rack image, brilliant. The WMD Tool-Box looks really interesting, I hadn't thought of that. In fact due to this I'm going to have a much deeper look at the WMD modules, they look as though they have a very nice range indeed. And, oddly enough, I had the Happy Nerding modules in my original 'idea' when first starting. Somehow, they got forgotten along the way, so thanks for the reminder. Lastly, I'm glad the In the Trees A/B Mixer's still in there, I also thought that it looked basic, but so useful.

No problem - I'm happy it was helpful

don't forget to check out the wmd/ssf collaborative modules like the toolbox (hint they're all listed under steady state fate here)

re: the trees a/b mixer - I'd probably have taken it out and replaced it with something else - to get something stereo and to get something else in the rack! but it was the middle of the night

So, just to add a comment, the Brenso is (as I said) just an idea at present, so indeed, as Lugia says, if I want to go down that path for less money, I could try out the Tiptop/Buchla 258t. Of course, if it can do the same thing for a third of the price I'd be very happy - as many would. Another couple of possibilities which look interesting (I think) are the Gravitational Waves by Void Modular, and the Intellijel Rubicon 2, or something else (not quite the same, but) which looks very versatile the 4ms Ensemble Oscillator.

If I ever buy another oscillator it'll be the tiptop 258t - I've got a dannysound cali which is based on the 258 - and it'd be nice to be able to have a 2-3 osc voice from time to time

As for another row ... I've got that covered, I've also got a 104hp skiff that's empty (or used as needed). So, I could expand even more at a later date.

but if I'd known that I wouldn't have crammed such small modules in!!

As for the symbols and layout of Frap Tools discussion, I don't really see why people get so wound-up about them. FT are trying to do their own thing, like plenty of other makers out there - who BTW also have wacky images and odd layouts. I bought the Falistri due to recommendations here, and have to say I love it. Once you see how they've laid it out, it's very very easy to use, and logical. The quality of the build of their stuff (from what I've seen) is very good.

I can't disagree with any of that - never used one of their modules - but, having over 100 modules, from a wide variety of manufacturers - see comments above - Maths makes more sense as a learning tool - due to the fantastic resource that is the 'maths illustrated supplement' - and for me ergonomics are really important - plus we all like to discuss things - looks like me, sacguy74 and Lugia have bonded more over our shared dislike of frap tools - some people don't like make noise for similar reasons - tbh not many of their modules I like the look of either - Maths, optomix and lxd are pretty much the exceptions there - or mutable clones - which again we seem to agree on

Lastly (@Lugia), don't worry about the CWEJMAN VCA-4MX, I just thought it looked interesting and it clearly is, but too expensive, which you mentioned on another thread (I think). However, luckily everyone here who's answered my questions, has come up with some alternative solutions which gives me plenty of ideas/solutions as where to move next on my set-up.

Very big thanks to all.

-- joesh

and unsurprisingly me too...

for me - it's not the symbols per se, it's the layout of the panels - it's all over the place - clumps of jacks and knobs, that don't line up - Make Noise aesthetics are 1000 * better imo - frap tools modules, particularly the big ones, are some of the worst panel designs in eurorack as far as I am concerned - they seem to have used the 'design language' of "a mess in black highlighted with bright colours and fuck the ergonomics even though they are large modules"

I'm sort of like farkas in layout and generally agree with most of what he posted - although muscle memory is not there with this layout yet and I think I will probably change it around a bit

my main cases are similar to farkas' set up but for a total of 188hp/18u (2 * 9u 104, 2 * 9u 84)

by the side of those I have 2 6u 19" racks 1 is almost empty but the bottom 1 is mostly full of video synth modules

at a 90degree angle to those racks I have a desk on which is a mantis (video synth) with a 6u/72hp rack on a guitar stand with mostly modulation modules in it

thinking of moving more of the video stuff into the 19" racks so I can set up the mantis and the 72hp case in the living room to focus on learning the black sequencer (which I bought recently) more

I'd add a matrix mixer, fx aid xl and something that can do offsets and inversion (3*MIA, perhaps) probably replace all the new vcas with a happy nerding one too if this were my case

something like this

wouldn't be my case though - I have multiple problems with the frap tools modules, but that's just me - although I'm sure they are great... I think bresno is way too big for a case this size - as there's not enough room left over for modules to support it - add another row, though and it'd be substantially better

the bastl one seems easy to find:

https://wigglehunt.com/?query=Bastl+QUATTRO+FIGARO&condition=&stock_status=in_&price_min=0&price_max=5000¤cy_code=47&sort=price

what exactly are you trying to do? - maybe post a link to your rack - imo it's often better to get multiple basic modules that when patched together work how you want them to rather than struggling to find a particular module that works in a specific way - it's modular after all - and you may not want it to work that way next month, or even next patch

this is one of the reasons that bigger cases are better - there's space to add simple building block modules that can be patched together to do different things/behave in different ways - which is also why Maths beats most of the other DUSG based modules (especially for beginners) as it has the excellent 'maths illustrated supplement' as a guide to patch programming, which can be extended to patching in general!

cwejman always were made in very small batches, (order and wait and wait), from what I can gather, and there's been a gap in production since Woja (Cwejman, the designer) died, apparently they are starting to be built again, but unless you want to get on the (quite long) wait list (expect years) then it's the used market only and as they are 'unobtanium', they tend to go for a lot more used than retail prices, especially quoted on modulargrid, would appear - supply and demand

I just checked on wigglehunt - there appear to be 5 available - ranging from $840-1100, all in the US, so probably + shipping and import duties etc - that's roughly 4 times the price of veils or the quad vca or the wmd

by simple 4 channel mixer I was meaning something in the 100-150€ bracket

keeping the quad vca you have (or swapping it out for a veils) and adding something in this bracket will save you a lot of money!

EDITED Dec 8th 2021, 14:23

well, you may actually be able to find the wmd - the cwejman, not so likely - unless you have super deep pockets (used) or exemplary patience (order)

sounds like you should keep the quad (or swap it out for a veils) and add a simple 4 channel mixer

Lately I'm starting to think I need a second Maths too, but I have nowhere to put the darn thing.

-- mntbighker

that's what new cases are for - my 2nd case was because I wanted Maths and didn't have room for it!

EDITED Dec 6th 2021, 18:07

the strymon aa.1 is a send and return or am I completely misunderstanding what you meant?
-- keefo

the aa.1 is a pedal interface - it does send from the modular to effects pedals and return from effects pedals to modular

@greenfly means send and return from your mixer to the aa.1 and any other in-rack effects, such as the fx-aid

@Sweelinck - great post, couldn't agree more!!!!

It's how you use the instrument... any instrument (or module) can be used to make any type of music

that's always a good lesson to learn: always ask can I do this with what I already have? before even looking at other modules

there's a list of eurorack shops world wide in the stickies of the eurorack forum on modwiggler.com

it's not 100% complete, but it's pretty good

the only module that can do both attenuation and offset per channel, that I know of, is the happy nerding 3*MIA - but you'd need 3 if you want a channel per ochd output
-- JimHowell1970

And you would need to actually find them somewhere.
-- mntbighker

true - but it's not that uncommon to have to wait for modules you want to be in stock... or to order and wait for stuff - impatience and modular never really go hand in hand... even without the current situation

just checked wigglehunt and there appear to be some in at analogue haven and there's on listed in the market place here in the eu as of yesterday

@sacguy71 hahaha - didn't even notice who the OP was!!!

I just bought a black sequencer too - Black Friday!!! my 1st Black Friday sale purchase! must spend more time with it!

I think that takes up a huge amount of space in this size case - at least it's got 4 modulation tracks on in - I'd probably pair it with a zadar or other smallish 4 channel envelope generator in this size case!

I might even leave out Maths - zadar and batumi would be the same size together - and then everything I think would be available in black - if of course you are after that aesthetic!

It sure does help! Thanks! And I am having so much fun already! The Squid feels so great already and I haven't even tried to sample CVs with it yet. I'll keep an eye out for the modules you mentioned. Links+Kinks would be a nice package, but I have not seen Kinks for sale locally or in EU in while (or I am just browsing the wrong used modules markets).
-- chlb

kinks has been discontinued - which is a shame

good places for used modules - here, modwiggler, possibly facebook - not sure if there's an EU specific buy/sell group - there's definitely a post-brexit one though

another good resource is wigglehunt - they tend to have shops and reverb only though - there's a couple in the UK at the moment - one of which is Elevator Sound - iirc they are opening up shop in Spain next week

there's not a lot to be saved on kinks used though - so if you can find one I'd just grab it!

great news @nickgreenberg - the ksp seems to fit your requirements - hold down a chord and play an arpeggio - have fun!!!

I'd want to leave some space - I'd probably do it by swapping out the blackhole dsp2 and replacing it with a fx aid xl and I'd probably also want some more modulation sources - I'd also think long and hard about the filter - it takes up quite a bit of space in what's still a relatively small case

looks like a decent start and some decent plans... not sure about the double O&C though! I'd rather have more specialist modules!

first thing I'd add would be an end of channel mixer, with enough channels to accommodate a bit of expansion... this may not be a single mixer - it may be a number of mixers and depends on you really - maybe some channels with panning and some stereo channels (work out how many mono and stereo channels you need based on what you are intending to buy and then add some!

plus maybe some sub mixers - but you'll work out these as you need them (I want to mix this and that before doing this with the output - dc-coupled would be the way to go so they can be used for both audio and cv)

and then utilities - the aforementioned sub mixer(s), a way of multing signals (buffered mult for v/oct, passive for everything else - module, stackcables, headphone splitters etc), a matrix mixer, shades or 3*mia, kinks and/or wmd/ssf toolbox

fx aid xl is a useful module to add as it;s very versatile and has a decent amount of modulation inputs and better ergonomics than the non-xl version

personally I try to think (loosely*):

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

as this tends to give the most versatility for the money

*loosely because some modules fall into multiple categories and because multiple oscillators (and sometimes other modules) can form a single sound source - for example your dixie II+, rubicon and a waveshaper could form a single complex oscillator

hope all this helps - have fun!

+1 for everything @Ronin1973 said!

Depends on the size of your case and how difficult to use functions and how much menu diving and hidden button combos are involved for me anyways. Take Expert Sleepers Disting EX, it packs massive features in small space but man that module is a royal pain to navigate and use without lots of menu diving and study of the manuals! I have an O&C to learn and hope that is not as bad.

In many cases, I like simplicity take clocks for example. I love my Pam New Workout and while there are some menus and encoders to use, it is not that difficult for what it offers. In contrast, something like Shakmat Clock O Pawn is still a great clock but dead simple to use and no menu screens to deal with.
-- sacguy71

the key to this is - don't expect, or even try, to learn all functions of a swiss army knife module - learn the few that you want to use - disting favourites really helps with this, for example - and have a decent idea of the scope of the module

think about how you'd use an actual swiss knife - 90% of the time you use it as a knife, maybe you use the scissors 5% of the time, the saw 4% of the time - wtf are the other things?

if you suddenly need a 'xyz' module - then looking up the manual on your phone to check how it works is not that much of an inconvenience is it? - chances are you really don't need this function mid-performance - and if you do, at least with disting: the i/o is almost identical most of the time and working out what parameters are available is not that difficult - just click the Z pot

as for modules with secret handshakes to access hidden functions - have a play with them - if the hidden feature is important/useful to you then you'll probably remember the handshake to get there having done it a dozen times or so - if it's not that important to you then you can probably find it in a couple of minutes - if and when you need it - just don't count on it during a performance

Is it safe to assume that the first and/or second tags on a module are the 'primary' functions for each. I get 'RTFM' but hoping there is also a certain degree of hierarchy in place for the tags
-- jb61264

only if there are 1 or 2 tags for the module - tag order appears to be alphabetic