passive attenuators are extremely useful and inexpensive

I have both 2hp trim modules and some DIY ones from Pusherman

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


VCAs - if you can find a new veils - then get that it's smaller and does the same job as the intellijel - and for less money - slightly different spec - but you seem to already have a tangle quartet - so I would just stick with that for now

Wavefolders - there are lots of them from low cost to high cost - I use a lot of the Doepfer ones for video - they work great

Quantizers - if you are using a sequencer, the chances are it is already quantized - so you probably don't need an separate quantizer, as Nick explained they are useful if you are generating the v/oct using lfos etc - when you have a lot of voices (I have 11 + percussion) you might find you need/want to make sure everything is in tune with each other (multiple sequencers and vcos) in which case a 'biq' quantizer can be useful - I have a sinfonion, which I find useful - not that you need anything as powerful as this now!

quantizers won't so much tame you vcos, as send them v/oct that is in scale - the vcos still need to be tuned so they are actually in tune with each other - you can either do this by ear - or just use a tuner - pedal or app for instance - the more vcos/voices you have the better

taming your vcos is probably better done with filters

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


It's quite difficult to get some modules anywhere at the moment - there must be a used market in Russia though!

What do you think is the thing you are missing most and try to find something that will do that - and repeat etc

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


@troux is right - basically you need a lot more utility modules to get the most out of what you have got - the options are: throw out, minimise where possible, or go bigger (add an extra row) - I'd pick the third option personally

plan a 3rd row for now - and once case 1 is full by a 2nd case the same size - then you will have space for all this, the modules you need to support it and a decent amount of space to support further expansion - or some space to spread out the modules you do have so they are less cramped together

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


it's a journey not a race

if you really like the System Coupe get that

and then when you realise that you are missing something you need or particularly want - get that

and if there's not enough rack space get a second case or just a bigger one take the modules out of the system coupe case and put them in the bigger case - maybe the system coupe case becomes a control skiff in the future!

total outlay now - System Coupe, however much that is - if you can find a used one then even better

total outlay in the future - who knows - but does it really matter? maybe a few hundred here and there - maybe more, maybe less.. it really depends on you and your needs and your level of self control...

if you are 'on a budget' & we all are to some extent or other, get a separate piggy bank or savings account and throw money in if and when you have spare

it's also a good way of sticking cash aside for the next case too if you follow the start small grow slow method - take the cost of your case per hp and multiply it by the number of hp of the new module and put that in the piggy bank each time you buy a module - when the case is full so is the piggy bank and the next case is paid for - without thinking about it

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: 62 HP Idea

why everyone recommends bigger cases to start with is that buying the bigger case saves you the expense of the smaller case and stops you having to worry for a longer period of time that you are running out of space, especially if you follow the other golden rule - "start small grow slow"

oddly though this does seem to be a decent fit for the size and spec

I started with a smallish case 6u/72hp and after 6 months when I only had 12hp free I decided I wanted Maths - not instead of anything but as well as everything else - so I bought a mantis and moved everything into that - and it was great - but when the mantis was full - 6 months later - I still had the smaller case as over-spill - I now have 6 cases and it's about 4 years later - luckily I have quite a lot of free space and probably won't run out til the end of this year maybe next - and my GAS seems to have massively reduced - I'm not really that interested in newer modules and especially nothing overly complicated or flashy - I have expensive modules

And the point of me telling you that is that I often look back and think I could have probably stopped at a mantis - but I wouldn't then have discovered video synthesis or DIY

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


hahahaha

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


a blank panel

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Yes but that's also a problem - especially amongst smaller 1-person manufacturers - they don't have time to check and update a lot of these things

The perfect example is York Modular - there's a request on the website somewhere, iirc, where someone asks him to update ModularGrid and he basically says he doesn't have the time or inclination

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I just checked the DFAM power draw and I suspect very strongly the answer is related to it

DFAM draws 230mA on the +12v and nothing on any other rail - so in order to use the DFAM PSU for eurorack modules you'd need something that can convert +12v to +/-12v and maybe +5v - in other words an eurorack power supply

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


might help if you added what type of pots you want to put them on - 6mm, 6.35mm, d shaft or t-18 for example

have you tried banzai?

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


@Lugia & Moderators if you see this

would it be possible instead of only adding manufacturers when they request it to also allow the addition of Manufacturers when requested by a user - a minimum amount of vetting would be required - probably a mod would have to verify the manufacturer - but this is not that difficult - send the manufacturer an email and get a reply

and it can even be a pro forma request - possibly automated

"Hi Manufacturer,

We have been requested to add you as a manufacturer on our site by a user, this will mean that people searching for your modules
will find it a bit easier to find them, as you will no longer be in the 'other/unknown' category. This may mean more demand for you modules. Please let us know if you are ok with this. Our policy is to not do this without your specific consent.

If you do choose to do this could you please make sure that the power consumption stats for your modules are as correct as possible.

best regards and thanks in advance

ModularGrid.net Moderator"

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


ok I think it's more about how you would use more modulation and utilities though

to be honest probably just utilities would do - expand the capabilities of the modulation you already have - go and take a look at the doepfer catalogue - look for anything that does not produce sound or process sound and read the manual - it's a page or less generally - think about how you might use that module in your rack - then work out which ones you are interested in and look for alternatives - work out which one you want to play with and get that

maybe I'd add either zadar or batumi but only a maybe... but only after I'd tried the above

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


what are you trying to do?
what sort of music?
how will you control this?
how will you listen to this?
how much is your budget? start up and long term
do you think you are missing something - is this just a "I have no clue and threw these in here and I am lost post"?
or is it just a hunch that you have missed something and you can't spot it?
have you bought any of this yet?
what other equipment do you have? that you want/need to interface with this?

I wrote this and then clicked on the rack to see if I could offer any immediate advice based on the actual modules in the rack - and the link does not match - please look for @Lugia's description of how to fix this - it's in the top few posts somewhere - I think you just have to refresh and save the correct page so that the in screenshot is updated

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


the 2 I particularly like that you can buy are doepfer lc9 and tiptop mantis

both are mid priced
both are a decent size
both have decent power - good enough for video - so at audio rates very quiet
if you want a more power hungry modules get the mantis
if you want a lot of lower powered modules get the lc9

the pittsburgh modular structure cases are ok but I know nothing about the quality of their power solutions - they are 'reasonably' priced and people like them - they use different sized screws iirc than the usual m3 - iirc they are 40-4(? a us size) and there are no knurlies, if this makes a difference

choose the case around the modules

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I'm in agreement with @Lugia here

more modulation and more utilities needed

as Lugia said one way is to create more space by taking (imo) the top row from metopolix up to and including data plus the m303 possibly more, into a separate case - 104hp would be nice wouldn't it - too match the other cases but I wouldn't bother with a 1u row - they are imo too expensive for what they are

the other alternative is to strip out all the modulation and utilities and then work out what you really need to support what you have and is it possible to fit that it - it's quite likely that you either end up back at the extra case or having to remove a voice (simultaneously creating space for more modulation and utilities and slightly reducing the need for them)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


it's an interesting concept...

regarding starting very small, I wouldn't personally, at least regarding case

by the time you have an es9 in the rack you have taken quite a lot of space already and when you add some decent modulation sources, some performance controllers and the utilities that you need/want to support all this - you will be around the same as a regular starter case - 84-104hp/6u - possibly with a little room for expansion

small cases are relatively expensive - especially ones with 1u rows - so unless you are smitten by their cuteness, as so many are I would forgo these - also you pay a lot for power and any utilities/functions that are often encouraging you to buy specific modules to get them to work - which there is nothing wrong with but particularly in this case you are not looking to use midi or audio i/o from the case

aim to buy something like a mantis or doepfer lc9

but start with the modules you actually want and need - paying attention to these points and then putting the case around them seems like a much better solution to me - remember you don't have too fill a case in one go!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


if you can't decide if you have enough or need more of something the simple and probably best answer is to postpone that decision until you can actually make it

buy a one or a couple of extra modules now and then work out what you need from playing with it

it's even easier if you buy the disting now - set it up as the modules you may think you want - it has vcas and quite a few different utilities, alng with quite a few other things - all of which are 'decent' or better fr what they are - and have a play, get used to using those algos (use favourites to simplify the module) and if you find yourself using disting as a vca then get a vca, or whatever

particularly if this happens for vcas - get more channels - a triple or quad cascading vca for example

if you think you need a mixer early on again get the cascading vca - its a vc-mixer!!! and it's vcas

the other great modules I have that work like this are maths and stages - they do what they do on the surface and then you can program them to do many many other things - i don't know about a stages illustrated manual, but the maths illustrated manual is a phenomenal learning tool - read it even if you don't have a maths or want a maths - you may need one afterwards

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


module unavailability is just something you get used to - it's worse thanks too covid, but it's still not unusual to have to wait for the module you want

Buy the important modules that you want
Work out what modules you need to support them and go from there

Might be an idea to post a starting rack to see if anything is missing

and remember there's nothing wrong with substituting module A with module B if you can't find module A and module B will do most (or all) of what module A does - either as a stop gap or permanently

there are no wrong paths in your modular journey - some are just more expensive than others

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


the simple answer is to go slowly - it is not a race to fill the rack - it is a journey
buy the absolute minimum of this that you think you need in order to make sounds
I think you will want filter(s) and other effects
2 sound sources is as many as I would want in this size case, Morphagene would take you up to 3
I would go up to a standard 84 hp or 104hp case to make more space

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


probably solid advice from @nickgreenberg there - I have never played with a SWN, but I had the impression that it could take polyphonic v/oct and so play chords, or is that the xoac odessa? could be getting confused

so I would check that out too if i were you

i also agree with the comment about harmonaig too - unless you have 3 or 4 (or more) v/oct consumers to drive (or you intend to get them in a reasonably short time frame) then you are possibly better off with something else

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


the scales seems a bit superfluous - considering the vector sequencer has quantizing built in

possibly better to swap the 2 bottom rows - but it's not going to make a lot of difference - cables get everywhere

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I would cut back to a minimum viable synth and build up naturally from there, especially if you have already somehow decided on the case - which would be a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to play and a way to listen - maybe add a few utilities - learn how to use those and then work out what you are missing and expand from there

an alternative to that, that I also recommend is to work out what modules you want, the modules you need to support those modules and then add 30% on top for expansion and then find a case to fit - not find the case and then fit the modules in

Whilst your current rack kind of ticks all the boxes it doesn't really do it in a particularly good way

For this size case I think you have too many sound sources and large modules which leaves not enough space to support them - especially as the SWN is quite large, not too mention morphagene, harmonaig and the es9

you also have too much in the way of Pam's, euclidean circles and bloom - Pams can do all of these things - try that first and if youo particularly want a dedicated module for one of those tasks then get one but plan on possibly not wanting Pams at the same time then

plus do you really need both midi and the es9? if you are using a DAW then I would just use the es9 - but you might have a specific use case for the midi - the keystep pro will work with cv won't it?

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: NiftyCASE

to me the things that you need primarily to use with the synths you do have are modulation, utilities and some sound processing

2 voices in a case this size is too many in my opinion unless you are into tiny modules etc because you will not have the room to adequately support 2 voices properly and the above in a single 3u/84hp case - and small modules are often not great to play with - especially if bunched together

do you really need an ADSR or do you need an envelope generator? - most people don't actually use ADSRs that much - AD is much more common - ADSR really only if you play it with a keyboard

I'd rather buy doepfer than the b-company any day - relatively cheap and generally simple building blocks, but solid builds and knowledgable staff - Dieter may even answer himself

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


That's not going to work with a uZeus even with the bigger power supply - max -ve rail is 500mA - which means you want to keep below 400mA (preferably less) - otherwise expect power problems

I'd try to change to a power supply that has at least 750mA available on the -ve rail & preferably one without the rack wart

I'd recommend the tiptop studio bus - but you'll need 2 busboards otherwise you probably won't have enough power on the +12v - and you still get a rack wart

I like the befaco excalibus - you'd need 2 though, but no rack wart! - so 4hp more to play with! just a hole in the case to take the power cable(s)

otherwise if it were me I'd probably swap the dipole for a blades - or something smaller like a wmd overseer and the pico dsp for a fx aid (get the xl if you can - better ergonomics and more modulation inputs)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: Disting mk4

I've mainly used it as a tape delay...

Pretty much all the algorithms are decent - they do what they say they do

I think the trick with it is to use the favourites function and not worry about using or even trying all the functions

Use it to fill in what you don't have (an extra filter/vca or whatever) and want to experiment with (wavetable vco for example)

Use it to determine the next module you get - if you have it stuck on tape delay as I have had - get a tape delay and use it for something else - I just bought a Magneto and haven't re-assigned my disting to anything else yet

Don't try flipping through all the algos to find out what they do - and have to constantly refer to the manual whilst you are doing it and then get frustrated and hate the module - this is what I've seen a lot of people doing - if you bought 100 modules or whatever it is at one go you wouldn't expect to learn them all inside out in an afternoon - or even in a year...

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Hi jorik

welcome

here's the link to the rack if anyone's interested

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9897

much easier for us to help you - click through etc...

aren't instruo modules available on vcvrack now? if you are using vcvrack then I'd be tempted to use those in there

the harmonaig in particular seems way over the top for such a small case and so few voices - I'd want at least 4 before getting a module such as this and a sequencer (probably more than 1) to control it - which would also mean I would want a bigger case if this is the

again the black output module, the sample drum and the es9 seem too big for the case

but all the pico modules seem too small - especially with them all next to each other

and for me not enough utilities

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


the psu is supposed to be a direct clone of the one in the tiptop mantis - and that psu survives being overloaded at least by a bit - when turning on all the modules flash and then you turn it off, take something out and it works again

I even had one module in mine that would sometimes not turn on - I think it pushed the inrush on the -ve rail but I'm not certain - everything else would work, but not this one - turn the power off and on again and it would be fine - just started doing it one day

if you're going to try to blow the power supply up though, you could also destruction test the case! :D

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


It may be that the OP didn't realise he was posting in a public forum - not realising comments are visible

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I'd stop worrying so much if I were you

eurorack psu is similar in current draw to a laptop

you'll almost definitely be fine

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


hahaha well I'd never heard of Geoff Hinton before - cool middle name!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Ah yes in an ideal world everyone would have Graham Hinton power supplies

It's like Steevio and using switched mults as gate/trigger mixers - all I can really say is it works for me (and I'm sure a lot of other people) - might not for you - the only way to find out is to try it

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


if you are still under 70-80% with the extra modules it is possible to add an additional busboard

it is also possible to make double (or triple) headed power cables* - I think intellijel make these or small flying busboards that might be suitable

it really depends on the space in the rack the 2hp modules can also be quite deep so this may have an impact on which solluttion will work best for you

*this is really quite easy and inexpensive to do and can be done with no specialist tools

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I've had 2 cases with 2 power supplies in running happily for a couple of years... and happily patch between these cases too!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


what exactly are you trying to do?

what do you mean by redundant? "functional duplication" in modular is often a very good thing

currently you seem to be quite modulation heavy - tetrapad/tete/quadrax/planar, melodic sequencer and adsr channel heavy - metropolix is I think 2 channels (and you only have one vco!) and you may not need adsr envelopes = the intellijel dual adsr is huge compared to similar modules from other brands

no vcas????

rainmaker is too big, imo, in a single rack like this unless some compromise is made with other modules being smaller than they should be (and I don't think you can do this in solely intellijel)

so you almost definitely need to add a quad vca and another vco - which means 20hp+ if you want to stay intellijel only (personally I wouldn't - I hate constraints)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


OK what are you trying to do? what type(s) of music do you want to create? what other equipment do you have, that can be used with the rack?

I'll say this on the assumption that you have done near 0 research - return the case if you can and get a bigger one - tiptop mantis or doepfer lc9 are good starter cases - because that way you won't be buying another one in 3-6 months - better to start with a big case and fewer modules than a nearly full small case!

often recommended starting modules are: a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen - including/plus a quad cascading vca (which may be your way to listen) and a utility starter set of something like links, kinks and shades - I would try to follow this more closely

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


if you have problems copy and pasting the rack let me know which one and I can try!

that sounds like a plan - I'd try to spend a few weeks to a month with each one and then with a couple together etc until you know all your sound sources and all your other modules inside and out - this will help give you an idea of what else you need to get everything working together in the future

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I'm the same about the b-company

There are no eurorack companies that come anywhere near close in size to them

Doepfer is (iirc) 4 people
Mutable is one

etc etc

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


what old video equipment?

how are you going to drive them via CV input?

NB I am a video synthesist - I have a lzx video synth modular as well as audio!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


OP: please post a link to the actual public rack - so we get click-through and infomatics - jpgs are next to useless - for helping us help you!

my basic thoughts echo @LYFoulidis

I would strongly suggest doing a lot more research before starting buying anything!!!!

at the very minimum: read through some other newbie threads - see what others have been advised in similar situations (there are thousands and thousands of these - you may be special, but you are not unique!)

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


NP :-)

I think planning too much is a bit daft - the plans often change as soon as the first (group of) module(s) is/are bought!

Case is big enough - I guess its a b-company go - just watch out for power consumption especially the -ve rail - I have a mantis (which is what the b-company cloned the psu for the go from) but it is 30% smaller - I have issues with -ve rail consumption in it depending on modules (but I do have some really -ve rail hungry modules)

personally I'd just dive in with the minimum viable synth I suggested above (including the utilities) and have an idea of where you are heading (rough number of voices etc - so that when you come to expand you can for example get the right final stage mixer to start with)

the only thing I would think about long term is whether drums in the rack are a thing you need - or whether you'd be better off with a drum machine (or similar - I have a vermona drm1 mk2, I sometimes use) as they usually work out substantially cheaper (but saying that I also have percussion in the rack!)

in terms of how many voices I'd want in this size rack - drums plus 3-4, or 5 maybe 6 without drums - otherwise not enough space for everything else!

btw - for a tuner - there are lots of free phone apps!!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


this rack is unplayable, imo, it is voices and effects and a not so great starter modulation section (more focussed on repeating modulation than on generating it) and no way near enough support modules to be able to make it function in anyway that I can see you wanting it to!

to me this rack says you want to create a complete track with it and have found all the things you think you want but have not done any research into what you actually need to make it work - including reading other newbie check my rack posts!!!

there are 10 audio outputs and only 3 audio mixer channels and no mixing for control voltages??? that is not enough basic mixing for any of this (covers the drums) - so I hope you have a good external mixer with lots of spare channels (9 spare would be good)

there are no envelope generators - drones only then? and nothing to trigger them with anyway!

there is no sequencing/midi->cv etc? how are you going to play this? send v/oct to the modules by esp? or just randomly turn the frequency knob?

basically for each "voice", "most people" will want/need a large subset of: one or more sound sources, a submixer, a modulation source (or 2 or 3 or more), some vcas (somewhere in the range of 0-10 usually depending on how many you use for controlling modulation), a sound modifier, a sequencer channel (or more) and a couple of different utilities

and then probably the same again at the rack level - a mixer channel for each voice, possibly a vca for each voice, an end of chain reverb, maybe some other effect (delay, lofi for example), probably a bunch of modulation sources and utilities etc etc

some of your sound sources (bassline and plaits) are 'full voices' so won't need a filter or audio vca (what you send the envelope to for creating a note) - but you will need them for voltage controlling volume and modulation purposes - also vcas are really useful - want an auto-panner 10% of the time use a couple of vcas (and a mult, an inverter and an lfo), want a side-chain compressor - mix the envelope (owith an inverted copy of the side-chain and use a vca

generally the best thing to do is start with one voice (a minimum viable synth) and play with that for a while to get used to a modular way of thinking

a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source*, a way to play, a way to listen

immediately (or next) add an utility starter set of (something like) mutable links, kinks, shades and veils - doesn't have to be those exact modules - but cover the functions - wmd/ssf toolbox covers a lot - get a quad cascading vca though!!!!! at first this can also double as a mono output

then play with it for a few weeks/months (to learn it exceptionally well) and then start looking to add more - getting new things as you find you need them rather than blindly following a plan

*for a starter modulation source I always recommend Maths - it is reasonably simple to understand at a basic level and is also incredibly deep - see the illustrated manual (available online) for details of 32 ways to patch program it - I strongly suggest that anyone who does buy this module spends some time working through these examples - patch programming is a very powerful modular synthesis technique and what you learn will carry over very well into the rest of your modular journey

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


I was looking at the changed version!

not sure about abstract data availability - but veils is perfect for all vca duties

remember Disting Ex can be used as 2 mkk4s! it is very handy, but if you don't like menus?!?!?

I know what you mean about the screen on Pams - it's difficult to see in any light!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


can't you just use the "my collection" view of modules to do this? or at least something very similar

or just use a massive case and have your actual rack in the middle or one corner and all the extra modules floating about - but in a rack

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


sound sources I see:

2 antidote, 2 hysteria, disting ex (potentially 2 voices), mco, 2 tiptop one sample players, a pic drums, prok clap

and that's not counting the filters which may also be able to be used as vcos

tooo many!!!!!!!!!! not enough space for support modules - not enough mixer channels for them probably as a starting point

Pams has random, quantised random, euclidean and clock division

I would probably replace it with something like Marbles or consider ditching the rcd and euclidean circles

that's taken care of random - but maybe chaos would be better - either way mixing a bit of random/chaos into something else - an lfo or envelope or both and/or attenuating/attenuverting it is a useful technique

imo what you are missing most is utilities - especially for generative - and an ergonomic performance interface - for techno

for generative most people want layers of modulation and utilities to introduce variation over time and stop it becoming boring

a basic utility starter set of links, kinks, shades and veils (or equivalents) will massively help

add a matrix mixer (VCAM perhaps) and a sequential switch and you have an even better starting point

as for performance style module - I am considering a TNSMv2 - might be worth taking a look at! tetrapad and tete may also be worth investigating etc

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


too many voices - 10? maybe - I'd only want to 4 or 5 max in this size case otherwise there is not the space for the modulation sources or utility modules to support that many voices - and those that are there are not well chosen

is this meant as a 'performance' synth? - ie totally hands on twisting knobs and nudging sliders - or is it meant to be more self playing? - ie you patch modulation sources to modulation inputs on modules so they alter over time and can do crazy things like FM and AM synthesis

solutions - double the size of the case or throw out half the modules and fill the rest with modulation sources, utilities and performance controls

or start really small (just Maths, maybe, considering you have the minibrute) and grow slowly - working out what you are missing for what you are trying to do along the way

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


interesting

ok I just finished building a case - they are not a lot cheaper - the expensive bits are the rails and the power - 9u/84hp costs me a bit more than 200€ (rails, threaded nuts and power) and a 9u/104hp costs about 100 more (needs extra power and I tend to use inserts not nuts) - of which the wood for the case is about 10€ - the bigger the case you build the more you save!

I would go for a 6u / 104hp case - the 1u row costs as much as a 3u row to install and can hold no where near the functionality

vcas are one of those things - you only know you have too few when you run out - depends entirely on how you patch - some people use no vcas - some use 10 per voice

you already have an envelope generator - Maths - although maybe a basic adsr one is a good idea if you are intending to use a keyboard

why is veils better than a cloned version - in this case it was cost - 1 veils is cheaper than 2 of the 2 channel clones

the mutable clones should sound the same and use the same (or extremely similar components) BOM and firmware are publically available as appropriate for all modules (probably not beads yet) - I can't comment on build quality (and it may differ wildly)

in general clones (and we're really just talking Mutable Instruments here) are less ergonomic - as they have been shrunk - this may be seen as an advantage if you are in the cram as much as possible into as small a case as possible crowd - or you only have a few hp left in your case (time to get a new one - you did start saving as soon as you got the previous case, didn't you?)

size is really the only excuse for buying clones - mostly they don't save that much money - maybe 50 €/$/£ or so - which in the big scheme of things is not a great deal - especially when looking at a case that costs 4k to fill - maybe it helps to think of it as - Hi Emilie, thanks for creating this fantastic module that i will use for many many hours and get great enjoyment from - here's a few glasses of chardonnay to celebrate - or whatever it is that she likes to drink

really if comes down to where you want your money, that you earned, to go:

do you want it to go to the original designer? - thanks for putting in the hard work

or to some guy who worked out how to make the pcb a bit smaller and order pcbas and panels from China

remember MI are built in France - a first world country - where wages and taxes are significantly higher than in China

utilities - I have no idea either - it really depends on you and how you patch - when planning a rack I usually try to think:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

as a single sound source can be multed to multiple sound modifiers and used with different vcas and envelopes to create different timbres and rhythms which then need mixing

or it may have multiple outputs that can be mixed before being sent to a single filter/vca etc

or you may have more modulation inputs than outputs - mult the outputs, modify them and mix them using utility modules before sending them to the inputs - lots of related but different modulation - for relatively little cost

it must be noted that a sound source in this case could be multiple vcos, sound modifiers could be multi-channel and multi-purpose, modulation sources could be multi-channel etc etc etc

as a starter set of utilities - links, kinks, veils and shades cover a lot of territory in not that much space, you get:

2 buffered mults - useful for copying v/oct signals (anything else won't notice a bit of droop so use passives) one of which can also be used as a 2channel mixer or a precision adder (for transposition)
a 3 way mixer
a rectifier - this modifies a waveform by inverting all of it, inverting just the negative portion, or setting the negative portion to 0
basic logic - send 2 gates in get and and or out
sample and hold - send a trigger in to freeze the input at the output - send a copy of a sequence to this with a different gate pattern than the original to create a 2nd melody line - add these 2 together using a precision adder to get a 3rd, higher note
noise - a noise generator that is normalised to the sample and hold input
4 channels of vca - which are actually amplifiers and not attenuators! which can be mixed together - no idea what else - only got an original
a 3 channel attenuverting mixer that can be used as a precision adder and can generate an offset

that is hard to beat in 24hp - it is almost definite that you will need all these functions sooner or later

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


you have quite a reasonable amount of modulation in the case already - I would head for utilities - a matrix mixer for mixing modulation sources together in different ratios seems like a good idea to me! - or even better the 4ms VCAM - voltage controlled matrix mixer with mutes or the instruo lion

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities