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indeed
sequencer includes both trigger/gate and melodic sequencers - which can be confusing
as usual the only solution is RTFM

a bit more background would be useful

what is your current recording setup? DAW and audio interface/mixer
do you want to integrate external instruments into your modular?
what sort of music are you intending to produce?
roughly where in the world are you? continent is probably good enough

some basics to get you started though:
effects could probably be handled quite well by a fx aid xl - replacing the afterneath or adding to it
in a tiny system like this envelopes can probably be handled by Pam's

re utilities:
mutable links is quite useful - it has 3 sections - a buffered mult (primarily for v/oct signals, but can be used for others), a mixer/buffered mult/precision adder, a 3 way mixer
mutable kinks is useful if you can find it - a rectifier (alters the shape of waveforms in various ways), simple logic circuit, sample and hold (with noise source - think semi-random value generator)
if you can't find a kinks then try to find a wmd/ssf toolbox - which has a variety of utilities in 6hp
happy nerding 3*MIA - which is a combination mixer, inverter, offset and attenuator again in 6hp

read through the manuals of all of these modules and try to cover as many of the functions as possible - you probably won't need (or at least won't think you need all of them) right now - but sooner or later you will

disting can cover quite a few - but only 1 at a time! so you can at least have a play with them to get a feel for what they do

smaller modules are not necessarily a good idea - whilst they do enable you to cram more functionality in to a smaller area, there is a huge trade of with ergonomics - often the better solution is (unfortunately) a bigger case

actual link to rack - jpgs aren't really a lot of use

I forgot to add schneidersladen to my list above - they are great too

OK I've had a look through both builds and I think you have all convinced me to to go for the mantis case, ill probably use the mantis build above as a guide.. I wont be able to build it all at once probably a few modules at a time - and I might vary modules from it a bit - but keep the intention behind it - like maybe instead of a second plaits go for another vco to FM with - but I think a second vco is probably further down the line of acquisitions anyway.

Thanks again for all the help.

Question for any EU people in here, where are the best places to buy modules from? I've been looking at Thomann purely because as a guitarist in Ireland its always made the most sense for pedals etc. but if there are online shops that better serve modular id be keen to take a look.
-- keefo

Not in the EU anymore - but have had good dealings with (in the past) Musicstore, Thomann, MidiAmsterdam, Exploding Shed (DIY, mainly), Modular Square, Raw Voltage and Patch Point

to some extent you do have to hunt around a bit - some stores stock a particular brand and others don't, or are out of stock, or dearer etc etc

I can do ducking with Boundary or Cascade, but that takes away their use as my main envelope generators. I have rarely found myself using the octal VCA because there are built in VCAs in the Boundary, Cascade, Doepfer LFO, and I have the Tangled Quartet as well as Skis in the drum skiff. Quantas Ampla would only eliminate 4 VCAs out of 17 total and give me the ability to duck four channels at once with one gate synced to the kick which the Bastl Tea Kick has a square out as well as the kick out. It will be a while before I can afford to get Data Bender, so I will continue to use the O&C and Tides and see what I can get out of them. I haven't used Tides as a VCO yet, so maybe that's what tonight will bring!
-- xnax

I was meaning work out how to patch it from scratch not relying on any particular module to do it for you...

you could take a copy of the kick (or the gate of the kick) and invert it and then add that to the envelope(s) you want to duck... or pass through a vca twice 1st with the intended envelope and again with the inverted gate... you have a lot of vcas you could use!

tides is a great vco too

the octal vca is fine

try working out how to patch a ducking vca with what you have - it's almost certainly in there somewhere

Let's see if I can try to help and also save some time for the people who usually help everyone by pointing the obvious:

Thanks @toodee - we appreciate it!!!

• "Seq. switch because I've heard people say they're important" -> that's not a good reason to buy any module IMHO. Buy them because YOU UNDERSTAND or at least strongly suspect WHY they are important. Advice: pick up a copy of the free VCV rack and experiment, understand what VCA's and switches etc can do. Remind yourself that an amplification section in modular (a VCA) can serve many more purposes than the amplification section of most fixed architecture synths, most of modules can be "abused" in funny and/or musical ways. A similar remark comes to mind for Beads, I mean sure, Beads, amarite, but if I ask Beads or Mimeophon or Arbhar, do you still have a firm answer and justification ?
• Doepfer + 2Hp VCA: looks like the space would be better occupied by a MI Veils 2020. If you don't understand why, I can only offer RTFM as advice :-)

couldn't agree more if I tried

• 2HP modules are great but a bunch of them cobbled together can get hard to wiggle - those things are tiny, mate. You may want to consider the user experience aspect when designing your instrument.

ditto

• Case size: Trying to rock 2 voices in a GENERATIVE setup with this space is ambitious to say the least. I can't remember what the exact titles were, but there are threads about this on this very forum. Basically, if you want to go generative, the 2HP TM will likely not be enough, and you have no ways to do logic, almost no modulation source. In the (approximated) words of a wiser member of this forum, the utility modules are the shine for the fancy nice looking modules, without it they remain dull for the most part. VCV will normally help you realize those shortcomings. Usually I see the TipTop Mantis case being recommended a lot but if you keep your build centered around only supporting the M32, you may not need a case as big as the Mantis. My advice is to at least PLAN your modular in a bigger space to get rid of that space limitation in your head, see what you need and then pick a case for the use you will have - and leave some space for (limited, if you want) expansion, modular is almost guaranteed to open a lot of doors in your head, so it can be good to be ready for when that happens.

see signature for the 'quote' & thanks once again - not sure I'm that wise though

re the tm and tune modules - I have had these modules from early on in my modular - of all the modules that I have, if I ever needed to sell any for any reason these would be the first to go - they can give you a taste of generative, but really they are a pita to use and you still really need a quantizer and a buffered mult to support them (distribution) and preferably a 2nd sequencer of some sort (mom maybe good for this) and a precision adder - so that you can transpose the generated melodies - otherwise they can get stale really quickly - I was so happy once Marbles came out -basically 3 quantized tms plus a load of other stuff in a really useful and ergonomic module - if you want psuedo-generative this is a decent way to go

the Mantis has a lot going for it in terms of starter case - decent size, not too expensive, very very good power supply - there's absolutely no need to fill the case - that's what blank panels are for - but it will leave you enough space to expand a decent bit in the futture without buying yet another case & power supply & potentially the 3 tiered stand

Including M32: NO. If you are thinking about putting the M32 in anything other than its own casing, don't, unless you have a large case that has a lot of empty space, it's a waste of space and therefore money (because you pay for the space in the case).

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to put the mom in a euro case temporarily in order to make the case seem fuller, but keep in mind that it should have a much lower priority in the case than actual modules - these need putting in a case whilst the mom has it's own already!

• Obligatory delay, reverb: why obligatory ? Unless you have very specific needs in terms of effects, like say the need for being able to CV control FX parameters, there may be other cheaper ways to handle this... As you have not included an Output module, I'm assuming you will feed this to a mixer or sound card of some sort. The latter implies a DAW, and therefore cheap great sounding FX VST's which could liberate precious space.

personally I like effects in a case - but possibly not taking up this much room in this size case - the fx aid xl is incredibly versatile - even has some drums and other useful non-effects programs now and has a decent amount of modulation inputs

• Doepfer mixer: if you intend to keep the build as small as possible, I don't understand this choice of mixer, there are smaller offerings, or similar sizes that offer more.

assuming you already have the mom - how are you listening to that at the moment?

For your future research, plenty of excellent advice for similar questions. Type "generative" or "ambient" in the search bar from forum index and you'll have a lot to read.

Hope this of some use !
-- toodee

I think the doepfer voice module is an interesting way to go - instead of the 'obligatory' plaits - but it wouldn't be my choice - I'd rather have separate vco and filter to start with - 1 vco can feed multiple filters!

again totally agree - the more research you do now, the less money you will waste in the future - it really helps to think longer term than just what you can buy now - always leave room for expansion!

bigger is almost always better - at least in the long run - I would recommend 6u instead of 4.5u or whatever these intellijel cases are...

1u looks inviting - but the amount of functionality you can get into the row compared with 3u is very limited - and there is very little that is available only in 1u - that's not available in 3u and takes up a lot less hp - and the advantages of the built in parts are not really that great compared with the price difference imo

I'd recommend a tiptop mantis - better power supply and cheaper than the intellijel 4u/104hp - and the 'built in functionality' of the intellijel can be added in not many hp - as and when you actually need it

if you want to use a guitar with eurorack modules I'd suggest that you get a dedicated input device that at least has envelope follower and comparator included = or get a disting mk4 or ex - as they have an algorithm that has both envelope and pitch following

an expression pedal interface module is also really handy - so you can control the modular with your foot whilst your hands are occupied playing the guitar

fx aid is a really useful module that adds a lot of variety in effects (and other areas) - the xl has both better ergonomics and more modulation inputs

Most external gear can cope with euro level - just turn the mixer down - if you have it at full volume it probably will clip - but start without a output module - if it clips then try a pair of passsive attenuators - and if they still clip or you NEED balanced outputs then buy an output module

the argument about mults was mostly about the fact that you don't need buffered ones for anything other than v/oct - but they were a bit excessive - passive mults are cheaper and don't take power headers - trying to stop you spending money on stuff you definitely don't need

the expander for zadar is very useful - more modulation inputs and you can mute the envelopes both of which are pretty handy

as for Maths - it's often left out by people who are willfully defiant due to the fact that it's popular - and as others have said - experience of fixed-architecture synths is really not as applicable to modular synthesis as it would seem - it's great for patching basic east coast style mono-synths and that's about it

personally I'd want more vcas and a matrix mixer

if you want to see my rack - look for this one : All My Eurorack includes DIY backlog and pre-orders, etc if it's upside down it's not there yet!

EDITED Nov 28th 2021, 02:19

lose all the output tiles - so many is pointless - 1 may be too many - but that is crazy

a way to play it - midi->cv/sequencer etc

patience - what are you missing?

better utilities - too many mults - no vcas!!!!

have you already bought this? or is it just a 'dream' rack - because it looks like a nightmare!

EDITED Nov 27th 2021, 19:37

.... Oh and before anyone says anything: yeah- there's no Maths. Get over it
-- rextable

ok, but why not? it's a fantastic learning tool for anyone interested in modular synthesis - or do you just want to connect some modules together to make some sounds? have you taken a look at the 'maths illustrated supplement'?

also would be really surprised if you need so many buffered mults - they're only really needed for v/oct signals anything else a tiny bit of voltage droop will be unnoticeable

Edit: you're going to need VCAs if you want to use those envelopes to shape sounds.

I had Veils in here but I pulled it out thinking the 1U Quadratt up top would handle things. Am I misunderstanding? Guessing that would be the justification for the bigger case.
-- new_moon

quadratt is a quad attenuator - not a vca - veils is an excellent choice btw - not only is it actually a voltage controlled amplifier - most vcas are technically voltage controlled attenuators (in that their maximum gain is 1) - it has so much potential gain that it can be used to amplify external signals up to modular levels - it also has 4 of them and they cascade so can be used as mixer (or mixers) - plus it has the ability to add an offset voltage on each channel, is dc-coupled in that it can be used for both audio and (just as importantly) modulation and is variable between linear (more useful for cv) and exponential (more useful for audio

I'll second get the bigger case - personally I would recommend a tiptop Mantis - 1u is seriously overrated imo

I'd also suggest Maths, if you can find one, as it has one of the best learning resources of any module - the 'maths illustrated supplement' which is probably the best primer for patch programming and modular patching in general

I try to think (loosely):

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

this generally gives the most variety for money invested - at least in my opinion

hope this helps

the only module that can do both attenuation and offset per channel, that I know of, is the happy nerding 3*MIA - but you'd need 3 if you want a channel per ochd output

NB Hendrickson is discontinued (& has been for a while) - maybe a few left in shops though

fx aid has decent bit reduction - with the xl there's a dedicated cv input for it and it's available over all algorithms - some of which are distortion type things - personally I'd go with that and beads - leaves more space for important things like utilities then

this is the modulargrid product page and Pusherman description

"ATN8 is an eight channel signal processor. It can be used as an attenuator, attenuverter, offset generator, mixer and CV source. A bicolor LED accompanies each channel to provide visual feedback of the output level. Each channel is normaled to the next one so it can be used as a mixer as well.

If there's no input on a channel, a selectable 5 or 10V is normaled to the input, these can be selected in two groups of four with the switches on top.

There are switches for each channel to select between unipolar or bipolar modes."

the 4th sentence (separated out for convenience) is the relevant one - but even looking at the controls it's kind of obvious that a single channel cannot do both attenuation and offset - only 1 knob, no switch

If you need the voltage offset, this module requires the channel above the channel to be offset to provide the voltage. So in effect it's 8 channels, but only 4 can provide offset. I got it to provide offset to OCHD, so this was a disappointment. This could be better documented.
-- mntbighker

seems perfectly well documented to me - I just did a quick scan of the 1 paragraph of documentation and understood perfectly how it works - I think the issue you have is in comprehension NOT documentation

maybe you will learn next time to ask questions about things you don't understand fully, before buying!

EDITED Nov 25th 2021, 13:10

if your 2nd 'skiff' is the same size you'd be better off with a Mantis - more space as no rack wart, better power and probably cheaper too!

as for this skiff - too many sound sources not enough modulation - for this many voices I would want a case twice the size - more modulation, more filters (one for each vco), more vcas and just more utilities in general

consider mutable veils to eke another 2hp out of it too, you'd also probably be better of with plaits over the micro clone of it's discontinued forebear

I would consider sharing skiff 2 as well - module recommendations are probably best based on the whole thing - mixing and midi->cv - rather than just half the intended rack

to get more variety out of a modular I think (at leasst loosely):

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

is a significantly better idea than anything else

I can't imagine a trying to sequence a module like that - having to remember the exact voltages required to get the required gender and degree of a chord - and the pain in the ass trying to get the rest of the v/oct into tune with the chord - and I've never seen one with individual gate ins or, for that matter, outputs - so they're probably all paraphonic and not truly polyphonic

I use a sinfonion - which potentially solves all those issues - but I do use a general cv for chords (which I guess is technically paraphonic too)

Thank you for the detailed replies everyone.

I now believe I have a clear path of what I need to take my rack in the direction I want to go.

I think the next module I will go with is Veils after more research. The updated version is really neat!

Although the fx aid xl that Jim mentioned is very very tempting. I've instantly fallen in love with it after seeing a few demos. Is there that much of a difference between the fx aid xl versus the fx aid, aside from the extra CV to control the settings?

I'll be DIYing a few things too, like my case, the aim now is 12U/104HP that I'll slowly be filling over the next few years or so. Could also get away with a DIY stereo mixer, hopefully that's not too bad.

Thanks again!
-- unclepeter

No problem - good you found some use for our ramblings!

fx aid: xl is bigger - so better ergonomics (because the knobs have more space) as well as the added advantage of extra modulation inputs

for a DIY stereo mixer I'd consider the tesseract tex-mix - you can expand it with as many mono and stereo channels as you want (4 at a time) and the smd is already done for you so just panel furniture and headers to solder!

ok do all the other modules work perfectly in the same case at the same time? are you sure the power cable i in correctly - red stripe corresponds with marker on module pcb and bus board? if keyed headers - is the cable correct? red stripe is left when key is facing you (lines up with a tiny, almost invisible triangle) on both ends

looks f'ing awful to me - too much crammed into to small a space (even thought he space is ok)

less is more - maybe 2-3 voices would be better suited in a case this size

go back to the real mutable modules if you like them and thank Emilie for creating them rather than getting micro versions which are un-ergonomic

what do you mean by "the front panel doesn't"???

I don't think the plonk will make any sound unless it is triggered!

what other modules do you have? the only rack you have made here is a single small row of 1u which is empty!

actual link to rack

the new version has an offset, this will almost definitely do what you want - checked the manual - it seems to only be a +ve offset

to convert -3/+5v to 0/8v you would apply a +3v offset - possibly you'll want some way to monitor this, although for modulation maybe not necessary

to then to then get to 0/10v you want to amplify by 1.25 - again possibly you'll want a way to monitor

then a simple inverter will get you to -10/0v - I use a malekko invert mix to do this, which is a small and

I don't think there's any 1 module that will get you all the way there for 8 channels - but then again, you probably don't need 8 channels of -10/0v

I don't think I would need that many channels of -10/0v modulation (& I've got 1600+hp)

another option might be 3 happy nerding 3*mia - I think each channel can invert and amplify

2*veils - all 8 channels will amplify by up to 20dB & have offsets in the new version i believe

the amplification on blinds is related to the cv input so you'd also need a fixed voltage higher than 1v to get past unity gain - unless you wanted to buy 4 and use every other channel as an offset - see the manual

tbh I sort of agree - but I think a mantis is still small enough - I was constrained to a mantis for a couple of months earlier in the year - & it was interesting - but I kept reaching for things that weren't there - I appreciate the smaller case (mantis) as a focused environment - I had a deckard's voice and a magneto in there so not that many modules! - but any smaller and I think you miss out so much on the utilities that make the bigger modules shine and of course the ergonomics - I was really glad when I got the rest back though - about 1400 extra hp for me including video, in my case(s)

as for filling the case fast - that's down to you...

I'd say get the 'slightly' bigger case but go slowly... set a budget of 100/month or something... and don't buy a new module until you are thoroughly conversant with the modules you have and how they interact

EDITED Nov 20th 2021, 00:51

it's definitely possible - but is it a good idea? almost definitely not

starting out so constrained will lead to poor ergonomics, unrealised potential, overspending on cases and possibke disillusionment with modular synthesis

start bigger and reduce (if you feel you need to) once you know what you are doing, what modules you actually want an (more importantly) need and how you work in modular

there is no need to fill a large case with modules - that's what blind panels are for

a mantis is easily portable, by all but the smallest children...

I would do more research - a week is really on the very low side...

ignore the case and work out the modules and functionality that you really want

sequencing:
bia with pams - ok
plaits with steppy? are you intending to use plaits as a melodic voice? if so steppy is a trigger sequencer - so no melody - pams acan do something like a turing machine - but I'd want some way to deliberately sequence too

tiny case:
you would be much better starting with a much bigger case, work out your workflow and what module you need to achieve that, and then if you are desperate to only have a micro beauty case scale down - the tiptop mantis or doepfer lc9 are good starter cases

overly large modules:
the delay and attenuators strike me as very large especially for this size case - fx aid xl - much smaller, more versatile - would replace attenuverters with vcas (& maybe a 2hp inverter)

too small modules:
vcas - vcas are fundamentally important to most modular synthesists - they are useful for modulation as well as audio - you probably want more of these - veils is good

My recommendation would be to buy Pam's New Workout and see if you can get away with using the Euclidean features on it. If you find that you MUST have real-time performance controls then purchase EC V2 later. A great strategy is to not purchase your entire system at once but just enough to get you going. Then add modules as you gain more experience and literal hands-on knowledge of your system.

I will definitely research them and add the to the list of considerations.

I'm highlighting this... because doing your own research, reading the manuals (before buying) will really help you select the best modules for your needs.

-- Ronin1973

completely agree with @Ronin1973 on these points - there really is no substitute for reading manuals as well as watching demo videos before buying modules

3x Mia and the WMD/SSF Toolbox. Both seemed like good utility modules.

Do you have any recommendations? Regardless, I shall look into it more though, and thank you for the reply!

those are great starting points - I'd just grab those 2 and see where you want to go afterwards...

EDITED Nov 18th 2021, 21:58

good luck!

if it's described as a sample and hold and behaving as described - then it sounds faulty to me

if Thomann say it's faulty immediately, then they've probably come across a number of these with the same problem) just return it - if the replacement still does the same - return it and get something from a more reputable company - doepfer or divkid/instruo perhaps

1. why buy the doepfer quad vca and then replace with veils? - just buy veils!
2. do you really need the output module? - probably not - if you are going to play live you might want one, but then probably a balanced one - if not often they are unnecessary, or can be replaced with passive attenuators - this may differ depending on where you live and how good your mains power is...
3. more utility modules would probably be better - I like to think (very loosely):

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

which generally gives you best bang for the buck - ie more variety (in patching)/less money

EDITED Nov 18th 2021, 11:36

Three things I wanted to address about my rack:

1) VCAs. The more the merrier right? My DIY Dual VCA is doing well, but I often find myself needing more control, both over audio signals and CV. Modules that I've been considering for this are Intellijel Quad VCA and Mutable Instruments Blinds.

Veils over Intellijel quad - veils has more gain (upto +20dB) and sliders + as @Lugia mentioned it;s smaller - which is sometimes a good thing - in this case it is

Blinds is bi-polar - which is useful - but makes it difficult to 0 - so if you want silence from your vcas then not so good

2) Random CV modulation. This is a big one for me. I've been on a quest to create quasi-random CV and LFOs for my ambient generative patches. I've been able to get away with it a bit using Tides and some CV mixing. I love randomly modulating the voices I use! From my research so far, I hear Mutable Instruments Marbles is great for this.

Marbles is like a triple TM with extras - really useful - also has gates and a fully random channel - I really like mine - used in every patch - might want to dump the tm and tune (I've got them too - and these would be the first 2 modules to sell if I decided I needed to)

3) Voices. To me, it seems that I don't have enough voices in this rack. I mostly find myself using Pluck, uPlaits and Rings, but is there another voice that sounds great ambient-wise, especially when passed through Clouds?

in this size case I think 3 voices is more than enough - as there is not enough space left over for the important things in modular

I try to think (very loosely):

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

as this way you can get more variety for your money and hp

a single sound source can be processed by multiple sound modifiers etc NB a sound source can be multiple vcos etc hence loosely

things I would think about:

you probably need a bigger case (or maybe just another one) - I use 8 cases the smallest of which is 6u/72hp - most of which are diy - I really like the befaco excalibus for power - it's very quiet and doesn't take up racks space (and there's a diy kit version - which is easy but tedious)

fx aid xl - a great little multi-fx module - loads of algorithms for you to choose from - I particularly like the lofi one (stereo zvex lofi junkie) and a lot of reverbs and delays - I'd probably get a couple

long envelopes: xaoc zadar can do some seriously long and complex envelopes

mixing - you look like you need a stereo mixer (rings, plaits and clouds are all stereo (or dual mono) modules - some stereo spread may be good

a filter might be a good diea!

the obvious answer is to read both manuals...

veils has variable lin/exp, offset (I believe, new version I only have the original) and a lot of gain (which can be useful - definitely enough for line-> modular) and sliders - off the top of my head

no idea about vincursal

If it were me and I wanted to split phase 1:
1a: case, beads, a119 (you'll be able to process your guitar and use the envelope follower and comparator to modulate beads)
1b: maths, sbg

another thing that you may want sooner rather than later is a way to control the modular with your foot - especially if you are playing guitar into it... addac and doepfer make one and there is a diy one available from thonk by a company called 7 dials

look at them carefully though, as you may find that you already have all you need other than the module to get that to work - usually a passive volume pedal - but iirc some of them can also take a switch

couldn't agree more with @AcdNrg more - see my signature!

phase 1:
case size good
uZeus power not so good - it can be noisy and -ve rail is poor and it is a rack wart (takes up valuable hp needlessly)
get a mantis - the studio bus is significantly better or if you are stuck on the unpowered case then befaco excalibus is excellent - quiet and no rack wart!

wouldn't recommend a free running lfo - I'd rather have a function generator - maths would be perfect - also because it's a great learning module due to the 'maths illustrated supplement' - and it can be free running as well as triggered gated

if you want to process a guitar or other external instrument - I would recommend getting at least a module that includes an envelope follower early - so maybe an instrument interface - again possibly befaco or doepfer

phase 2: how are you listening to the output of beads in phase 1 - unless you need headphones etc in rack then I wouldn't bother with the xoh - I'd prioritize a triple or quad cascading vca - happy nerding 3*vca or mutable instruments veils - veils would be my choice as each channel can also be used as an instrument interface (20db+ gain!)

tbh I would combine phase 1 and 2 - and add a disting mk4 - this has an algorithm for envelope and pitch following - dump the ochd and xoh and add maths and the cascading vca

this would mean that your phase 1-2 would be:
case, beads, maths, veils, disting mk4, sbg - and some stackcables

phase 3: seems ok

phase 4: plaits is a reasonably solid choice - you'll need an end of chain mixer though - depending on how you are intending on listening
I'd recommend the tesseract tex-mix as it is expandable I'd start with a master section and 4 stereo channels

expansion - if it was me I'd add a filter (possibly stereo), an effects module (I like fx aid xl) and more utilities (think plumbing), maybe put the ochd back in

in this build I would probably mix the mono sources using a vca then into fx aid (lots of mono->stereo algos) and then into beads and use that as end of chain - the matrix mixer I would use for modulation - not audio

a few more thoughts - depending on what other gear you have - a poly synth for example...

I would swap the chainsaw for a general cv - it's a eurorack implementation of general midi - so has loads of samples of real instruments - plus it can be expanded to be used as a polyphonic cv-> midi converter (possibly the best one out there for interfacing sinfonion with external poly synths) - & general cv will also double up as a percussion source!

agree with farkas - get vcv rack (although personally I dislike it) and consider a dc-coupled audio interface to interface the odular with it - these can be had for cheap - used RME interfaces or a bit more expensive and in rack es8/9

are you thinking of using the bitbox for drums? if not how are you thinking of using the metronome to 'add a cool drum transition at the end'?

building a mixer from scratch is a real pita - seriously check out the tex-mix - I really like mine!

I have something similar in terms of generative (marbles) and programmable (step fader, BSP - & thinking hard about a black sequencer) feeding a sinfonion (plus a pico seq - which I'm not at all keen on - for swapping song parts) for sequencing and maybe a couple more voices than necessary

you can check out my rack

which is something similar to what you are trying to do (NB left most section is mostly video synthesizer - some of the doepfer modules are used for both though) although this is slightly out of date - it's now spread over 8 cases not 6 as depicted

I agree with @farkas about going back to the drawing board too... step back as far as possible and start with what you requirements are - how many voices and what type - how do you sequence that, do you want programmatic or random or both - do you need percussion - much better in terms of price/features to go outside the box...

I'm looking forward to @Lugia's take they are often very interesting!

I hope it's an exercise in planning rather than you have all theses modules and you're stumped!

in addition to farkas' excellent questions - here are some thoughts:

sequencing/quantising: there is massive overkill even for using sinfonion - I recommend 4-5 sequencer channels - if you want to add more random then a single permutation/pachinko is sufficient - personally I would go for Marbles instead of either pachinko is a clone of marbles and less ergonomic - and marbles is like a triple turing machine - which permutations is derived from - one of the sequencer channels should be completely independent (ie run at a different speed/separately clockable) and programmable - this is for switching song parts in sinfonion

metron is a trigger sequencer - mostly used for programming drum patterns - I think this is completely superfluous - unless you are planning on using the bitbox for

I would try to think in terms of

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities + sequencing and final mixing

I would also when trying to emulate tangerine dream (or any other music based around multiple movements within the same piece of music) think in terms of layers of modulation - how to alter volume of parts over time?

sound sources: I see 3 modules - plaits, t-sl v2 and chainsaw - plus the bitbox (which I know nothing about) which I am assuming that you are intending to use for another 3 voices - you really want 8 v/oct inputs for voices - so this seems about right in terms of number - not what I would have picked but fair enough - that's personal taste - although I would probably want 2 or 3 of the same analog vco

vcas: definitely very light on the vca front - 4 vcas (yes I know that plaits has a built in lpg) I would want at least another couple of quad vcas in this case - they are needed for much more than note shaping - automated volume control over time and modulation for 2, which brings us to -

envelopes/modulation sources: there might be just enough envelopes, but then there will be a lack of controllable lfos - I would be tempted to add zadar and batumi and a matrix mixer to make modulation more interesting - mix modulation sources - possibly might need a couple - I might remove o&c

sound modifiers: plaits has a built in filter/lpg and chainsaw is stereo - the filters you have are mono so would work with individual outputs from the bitbox and the t-sl - I would probably dump all of them in order to get 1 or 2 more ergonomic mono filters and add a stereo filter for the chainsaw - I'd also want more in the way of general effects - a single mimeophon and beads are not really going to cut it for that many sound sources - I'd probably add at least a couple of fx aid xls, probably more

utilities: not really enough in this size - I've covered vcas and to some extent mixers (matrix mixers) above, but you will almostt definitely want more mixers - for panning and cross fading I would learn to patch these from vcas, lfos etc, but there is not a lot in the way of other basic utility functions - I would spend a decent amount of time researching all the different sorts of utilities and how they are used and an equal amount of time thinking about how these can be incorporated in your patching of this synthesizer (I'm talking weeks or months here not minutes or hours)

end of chain: how are you planning on listening to this? personally I think the eoc mixing solution you have here is woefully inadequate - I would look at the equivalent of a battleship eoc mixer - either the wmd performance mixer or something that is expandable such as the tesseract modular tex-mix (I have this one) which is extremely flexible as it is expandable 4 channels of mono or stereo at a time (and better yet more cost effective and lower power consumption than the wmd perf mixer)

I'd also want some effects on the send bus of the mixer - probably some reverb and I personally like the lofi setting on the fx aid as an eoc effect - so possibly another couple of fx aids and/or a very nice stereo reverb - the new strymon starlab looks and sounds very good for this role

if starting from scratch go very slowly - build a single voice chain (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier, some utiltities) and work from there maybe planning to add another module or 2 every few weeks or months towards something similar to this over a period of a couple of years - otherwise you will probably be overwhelmed

additional after looking at the bitbox further - if you are intending on using this as a sample player for 3 melodic voices + some percussion - I would probably want a more sampler with more channels - or multiples of this - I'm not going to recommend anything for that though as I know nothing about samplers in eurorack

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 17:12

there's a reason the mantis is popular - it's a bloody good case and reasonably priced!
I have one that I use mostly for video synthesis and it's great for this - if a little under-powered on the -ve rail for video (video uses a lot of -ve power) but the point here is that the psu is incredibly good - very quiet up to video rates (MHz) and not just the KHz needed for audio - I've been using mine daily for about 3.5years and have moved it around on on trains and planes a fair bit in the also reasonably priced cases - the newer one is significantly better than the old one! - to be honest I rarely notice the case as it's usually patched!!
another option might be a doepfer lc9 - again solid power - but might be a bit under-powered for 9u if using a lot of digital modules

re:maths - yes you could patch everything from other modules - but it's really convenient to have it all in one module - I'm keeping my maths - and I have all the functionality duplicated a few times in my rack - but it is significantly bigger than just the mantis!

I'd go bigger at least a 6u/104hp case - unless you are going to keep your existing case too

this way you'll have a bit of space left over for future expansion and don't find yourself in the same situation (swapping modules in and out) in a few months or so

how are you recording?

what are you using for mults?

there's a decent selection of utilities, but I'd probably want a matrix mixer (really useful for a number of things) - I'd probably also consider replacing the contour and function with maths (more than the sum of it's parts - see the 'maths illustrated supplement') and also consider adding an fx aid (xl) as it adds an amazing number of effects etc in a small and relatively inexpensive package

always a good idea to check wigglehunt.com too (aggregator site)

No Problem - have fun!!! & hope all your builds work first time or are at least easy to troubleshoot

Hi farkas

build a passive mult 1st - should be cheap and very easy

get a kit for the befaco module - not just panel and pcb - follow the order in the building instructions and you should be ok!

AISynthesis has a lot of beginner material - videos and kit lists - watch these

if you haven't bought a soldering iron yet - seriously consider the hakko fx888 - https://www.hakko.co.uk/product/fx-888d-digital-soldering-station-blue-yellow/ (it's the one I have)
it may be the only soldering iron you ever buy - and has a good variety of tips available in case you need to do smd in the future

other than that get:

solder with lead (pb) in it - it's easier to use as it flows at a lower temperature than lead free and isn't a problem for the small amount of solder that you will probably be doing - and won't cause problems as you won't be selling modules you build for a while at least - buy the thickness that AI recommends - buy a decent amount

desoldering braid - you will make mistakes and once you get the hang of it works really well - better than solder suckers imo

a basic multimeter

side cutters - for trimming leads

a magnifying glass on a stand (maybe a 3rd hand one)

hope this helps
Jim

EDITED Nov 6th 2021, 20:49